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Full spectrum lighting..what set up do you have?

danadear

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Well I live in South Carolina so we get lots of sunshine. :D But my birds still have to be inside in their cages a lot of the time while we are at work so they just don't get nearly the amount of sunshine I would like for them to have.

We're never going to get it 100% right. We are asking our birds to live in a very unnatural environment and we just can't substitute for everything they are giving up. And that just sucks. :(

All we have to do to get a glimpse of what they are giving up for us is watch a video of birds in the wild flying free with their flock mates. Tears me up everytime.
 

Stormcloud

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Living in Australia means I can put my birds outside a couple of times a week for a couple of hours, even in the depths of winter. It's a bit harder in much of North America and Europe where the winters are more extreme. IF I lived on either of these two continents and IF I owned a Grey, then I'd probably still give it a shot during the winter months where it is just not practical to put them outside. BUT pellets making up at least 70% of their diet is still better than relying upon a lighting source that may, or may not, actually put out any UVB at all. FSL doesn't necessarily mean that the lighting source will put out any UVA and/or UVB light at all as you have just found out, it just means it mimics daylight. For every article I could find that extolled the virtues of FSL, I could find another that bagged it for a whole host of reasons and that is why I examined it using the laws of physics. Like Mizzely, I think that most here tend to underfeed pellets and your chosen pellet should have D3 and Calcium listed within its ingredients. I don't have access to TOPS, but even if I did, I'd never purchase it because it doesn't contain them. Kinda defeats the whole purpose IMO. :)
 

danadear

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Gerard do you think that offering the pellets and some FSL lighting would be a good combination? That's what I am thinking. Some of my birds love their pellets and others would rather starve than eat them. I still offer them daily but am never really sure how much they get. In addition, without any science to back this up, instinctively I just feel that Vit D absorbed through food and Vit D absorbed through light are not the same and do not result in the same benefits. As Jen mentioned FSL lighting does not provide the same benefits of natural sunlight of course but wouldn't some FSL light be better than none?

And this is where I get confused each time and just dont' make a decision. :D
 

Stormcloud

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It is only of benefit if it actually puts out UVA & UVB at the required frequencies and intensity at the correct distance. It is virtually impossible to determine the correct distance because the amount of UV light emitted degrades with the age of the light source. None of the manufacturers bother to provide a degradation curve (in a graph) so that we can perform the necessary calculations to adjust the distance accordingly as the light's UV output wanes with age. My gut instinct tells me that they don't provide it, because if we knew how inefficient they really were then none of us would bother with buying them in the first place. I can only get the Arcadia ones manufactured in Europe over here. They do actually put out UVA & UVB, but are $95 a pop just for the CFL source, it doesn't include the fitting or reflector. Realistically it would probably cost me around $250 for just one complete set (source, fitting & reflector) and I can by a freaking lot of good quality pellets for that. I should point out that the Arcadia ones have a use-by date printed on the box, so I can only assume that they even degrade while they are sitting on the shelf. I also think this is why we are seeing a lot of FSL products that don't emit any UV light at all and that are just simply designed to mimic daylight without the UV content.
 

danadear

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Ugh..and now the headache arrives. :D Thanks Gerard.
 

Katy

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Ugh..and now the headache arrives. :D Thanks Gerard.
Sorry Dana, I thought you said somewhere that you are in Minnesota. But thanks anyway for bringing it up again. It sure is problematic.
 

Katy

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Stormcloud

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Ugh..and now the headache arrives. :D Thanks Gerard.

Dana, I'm not saying don't use them. I just cannot see for what it costs that I can justify a 0.01% benefit. I won't bag people who do use them, because they are only exploring every avenue available to try and look after their birds even better than they do now. Sarah's done way more research than I have and she's still none the wiser. As she found out, just because you're buying an FSL light source, it doesn't mean that it puts out any UV. Kinda defeats the whole purpose and you might as well have just used a normal lamp to illuminate the area like I suggested to you in the first place. One thing worth remembering is that UV light on fresh foods will degrade vitamins A, C & E very quickly (promotes oxidisation) and renders any liquid-based calcium supplement in the water
instantly useless.
 
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Macawnutz

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I looked these up too and called that company. He went on and on about the benefits of it, and the color temperature of it. When I asked again about the UV outputs of it he started telling me about distance from the bulb being important and on and on and on. I'm guessing.... that bulb has no UV outputs. He could have saved himself a half hour of song and dance and just said that but he did not. Instead he tried to confuse me out of the question and I gave up.... never once did he say that it had any UV ratings.


And.... I understood Gerard this time.... :dance4: I did not learn anymore so you must be using simple words this time. :rofl:
 

illuminati

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I looked these up too and called that company. He went on and on about the benefits of it, and the color temperature of it. When I asked again about the UV outputs of it he started telling me about distance from the bulb being important and on and on and on. I'm guessing.... that bulb has no UV outputs. He could have saved himself a half hour of song and dance and just said that but he did not. Instead he tried to confuse me out of the question and I gave up.... never once did he say that it had any UV ratings.


And.... I understood Gerard this time.... :dance4: I did not learn anymore so you must be using simple words this time. :rofl:
thank you so much for that info...what bulb do you recomend for me to use?
 

Macawnutz

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Sarah's done way more research than I have and she's still none the wiser. As she found out, just because you're buying an FSL light source, it doesn't mean that it puts out any UV.
This is what I was most confused about. Why are we all buying these lights when they are nothing? If you are going to use a FSL light for your bird YOU HAVE TO look at more than just the kelvin rating and the CRI rating. Some really wise people on this site use "why bother" light bulbs. It made me feel like I was missing the big picture when in fact, I was not, I was seeing the whole picture. Bulbs sold as "avian lights" don't even mean a thing. You have to see the UV ratings on the box, they talk about full spectrum lights being great for our birds. To be a FSL you only need 5000 kelvins and a CRI above 88. FSL lights do not have to omit UV to be considered. Featherbrite advertises correctly. I will get my list of the ones that do.
 

Macawnutz

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thank you so much for that info...what bulb do you recomend for me to use?

OMG please.... I am so small in this subject.... I swear I know nothing and your asking me?

I will get my list of companies I called.
 

Stormcloud

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I am so small in this subject.... I swear I know nothing and your asking me?

:huh: No you're not. You got off your backside and did your own research rather than just go and get one because someone else did. Just like Dana, you dared to ask a question and then sought to find an answer. It did lead somewhere and you're now wiser because of it. Sometimes our research will lead us to an answer we weren't expecting or not hoping to receive. This why we need to go into these things with an open mind. IMO you've done a good job. ;)
 
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Katy

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:huh: No you're not. You got off your backside and did your own research rather just go and get one because someone else did. Just like Dana, you dared to ask a question and then sought to find an answer. It did lead somewhere and you're now wiser because of it. Sometimes our research will lead us to an answer we weren't expecting or not hoping to receive. This why we need to go into these things with an open mind. IMO you've done a good job. ;)
Nicely said. She was far too modest. :hug8:
 

Macawnutz

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Thanks Gerard. It was hard research to even post a thread about asking a question. Then the more I learned the more I had to look up. :o: I had weeks in before I posted my questions :rofl:

These are the bulbs I contacted

http://www.mmlights.com/Full%20Spectrum%20CFL.html
5000K 93 CRI UVA 3%, UVB .05% on there tubes & 5000K 88 CRI UVA 3%, UVB .05% on there CFL's
Full Spectrum 15w light bulb by FeatherBrite 5500k, 91 CRI, UVA 4%, UVB .05%
http://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/compact_fluorescent_32_ctg.htm 5000K 93 CRI No UV
AvianSun 7100k,CRI 93, UVA 3% UVB 5% ( 7100K is really high, it will cast a purple or blue hue to your room that your birds see better than we do )
Philips 209056 F32T8/TL950 Straight T8 Fluorescent Tube Light Bulb at eLightBulbs.com 5500K, 98CRI No UV
bird light | bird cage light | bird full spectrum light | full spectrum bird light 5000K and we would not tell me anymore than that. I would then guess 88 CRI no UV

The only bulb that did not get back to me was the vital light. I think they had a change in ownership.

Here's the thing. Are you looking at my information saying what is CRI? What are Kelvins? I too just wanted someone to recommend a bulb but I really believe it's not enough to know you are doing the right thing, you need to know why it is the right thing. Otherwise things get sloppy and we are using something for no reason. Forgive me if what I say seems harsh but I'm really glad I suffered through learning this, it taught me quite a few things. I still don't have all the answers but I have enough to know what I don't want. I will post some of the things I read if people would like to learn and be the judge for themselves, give me some time to find them all.

IMO, I like the featherbrites the best I guess or the MM Tubes. None are perfect.


 

hockeymomwood

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I have the Feather Brite bulbs and thought I was doing the right thing. Went to a Phoenix Landing class last week and the vet told me emphatically not to use them.
 

wonderb

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After doing some research, I decided to do the following:


  • Provide dietary sources of Vit. D3: Pellets & egg yolk
  • Provide full spectrum light: I decided to provide this even if the UV output was negligible. From my own personal experience, I feel bright light provides some psychological benefit, especially if your bird is in a room with limited natural light.
  • Provide real sunlight: I'm of the belief that there's nothing that can truly mimic the sun. I'm still working on this one, considering things are just now starting to melt in MN. But, within the next month I hope to be able to take Olive out for short periods of time and, by the time summer comes, I hope to get Olive outside everyday.

I figure these 3 things will cover all the bases so I can be sure she's getting adequate Vit. D3. :)
 
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danadear

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I like your approach Ellen..I think it's pretty much where my thinking lands. Now just to decide on the best bulb that does actually have UV outputs and the correct distance from the cage to provide some benefit without actually doing harm. It's a complicated thing.

And Sarah...thank you so much for doing all of that research! Very very helpful, thanks for sharing it.
 
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