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Full spectrum lighting..what set up do you have?

Stormcloud

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Back to square one. Phooey! The cage mounted type is not a good option, for the info provided from Laselva and because I have playtop cages so it would be a PITA to put them on and off..the swag light thing won't work because my cages are really tall and close to the ceiling. The only other option is the freestanding lamps but for my two cockatoos that's going to be tricky because I am using all of the space available on the wall where they are for their cages..no space left. So that means actually putting the lamp in front of the cage..awkward. The space they are in does not get very much light from the windows.

My birds get outside on the porch at least twice a week from 3 to 5 hours or more each time. They have not been out during the week lately because it's been so hot here and still sweltering when I get home from work so they are down to weekend mornings. I need to add more light to both rooms where my birds are so I thought that if I am adding lights specifically for the birds I may as well go the FSL route.

Something tells me I am going to still be unable to decide and then do nothing. :confused:
Dana, don't be disheartened because you asked a perfectly valid question about trying to look after your birds even better than you are now.;) I looked into this exact same issue for my birds several months ago. However, I'm not going to send you via the cape looking at articles, blogs or links. Instead you and I are going to consult an old friend of mine, whom you and every other member here also knows. As unbelievable as it may seem, the famous Nuclear Physicist, Dr Albert Einstein is going to contribute to a thread on Avian Avenue and assist you and I to solve "Dana's Dilemma". Now I'm tipping that it is quite possible that the good Doctor knew absolutely bugger all about birds, but he sure knew plenty about the properties of light and it is primarily his work upon which all current formulae regarding the calculations of the various properties of light are based.
:smarty:See, I promised he would make an appearance just for you. Now to make this a bit of fun, I want you to imagine that you are sitting in a physics lab and you are about to be briefed by an elderly, well spoken gentleman with a European accent wearing a white lab coat, Dr Albert Einstein himself and I shall pretend to be the good Doctor (I wish). Are you ready??? Here we go.

"Guten Tag Dana. Stormcloud has briefed me on zie nature of "Dana's Dilemma", but I believe I can provide an answer for you. LaSelva is quite correct in pointing out zat zie globes, or bulbs, vitch ever is your preference to describe zem, are quite veek regarding zear output of both UVA & UVB category light spectrums. Even if vee use zie reflector specified by zie manufacturer to concentrate light output to a given focal point zie light vood have to be positioned quite close to zie bird. Vee are talking about a distance of 150-200 millimaters, or 6 to 8 inches, for zie light to have zie desired effect. If vee need to have zie light positioned zat close to zie bird zen vee are probably risking eye damage, zuch as catarats, to zie bird. Zear are many variables at play here, such as vear zie bird is positioned in zie cage. Sometimes he vill be at zie top, and sometimes he vill be at zie bottom, but vee do know zat birds tend to perch in a higher place zan a lower place as zay feel safer zear. Since your cage is very tall at 1800 millimaters (6 foot), vee shall assume zat your bird is positioned at an average height of 1200 millimaters (4 foot). Vee shall also assume zat zie bracket holding zie reflector keeps zie light mounted at a distance of 100 millimaters (4 inches) above zie cage top and zat zie light need to be vissin 175mm millimaters (7 inches) of zie bird to have zie optimum effect. So vee can determine from zis information zat your bird vill be at an average distance of 28 inches from a light zat he needs to be vissin 7 inches of to gain zie optimum benefit. To solve "Dana's Dilemma" vee shall use my Inverse Square Law for zie Intensity of Light. Zis law of physics states zat if vee double zie distance of zie light source from a given point zat its intensity vill drop to a quarter of vot it voz originally (2 squared equals 4) and if vee triple zie distance zen zie intensity vill drop to vun ninth (3 squared equals 9). In "Dana's Dilemma" vee are actually quadruple zie distance (28 inches divided by 7 inches = 4) and zearfore zie intensity drops to vun sixteenth (4 squared = 16). From zis vee can deduce zat Dana vill need to mount sixteen lights from zie top of zie cage to solve her Dilemma. I am sinking zat zuch a vast lighting array vould consume a large volume of electricity, but at least Dana vould have a magnificent new chandelier in her dining room. I hope zat zis information has helped you vith your decision Dana".

Back to reality, Dana if you wish to add more light to the area where your birds are positioned I would us a standard floor-standing lamp with one of the new LED globes. These globes cost virtually next to nothing to run and one or two will provide enough lighting to illuminate the area. Providing your birds are on a quality pellet-based diet, such as Harrison's or Roudybush then your birds will be getting ample vitamin D & D3. If not then put a liquid supplement in their water once a fortnight. Vetafarm's Calcivet is a good one, but I'm sure that there are many produced by US based manufacturers that are just as good. I sincerely hope that you found this a fun way to address this issue using the laws of physics which are impartial and therefore cannot take sides in a discussion or debate.:)


 

danadear

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Stormcloud that is awesome! And also very helpful..thank you!
 

Stormcloud

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Very interesting information, LaSelva, thank you for sharing! I've gone back and forth on the FS lighting issue a lot. I don't necessarily believe that synthetic vitamin D precursors in pellets are providing optimal levels of vitamin D. I have always maintained that there is no true replacement for real sunshine, but that is not always possible. I live in an apartment in Minnesota, so even in the summer, outside time is challenging.

I use a floor lamp with an adjustable arm which extends over one side of the cage. My bird often chooses to cat nap right under the light, which makes me think it might actually feel good to her. I agree that putting a light directly on the top of the cage, when they cannot get away from it, is not the best solution. It is important to keep in mind that adequate vitamin D is necessary for proper immune function. I wish more research was done about this issue!
Ellen the reason synthetic vitamins, such as D and D3 are used in pellets is that they are molecularly stable, usually for a period of at least twelve months, before they start to degrade or oxidise. The simple reality is that you are far more likely to get the required of amounts of Vitamin D & D3 into your birds using a high quality pellet, such as Roudybush or Harrison's than you are using bulbs. My birds are also fed fresh veggies every day as I believe it is important for working the birds gut and keeping their internals well oiled, but I no longer feed them seed at all. They probably consume 80% pellets and 20% veggies, but there are enough veggies always supplied that they could eat 100% veggies if they wanted to. However, one thing I do know, is that it is important to try different things, but in this particular case I think that I've debunked this particular issue (FSL) using the laws of physics which are impartial and cannot take sides. They don't subscribe to "sales pitches", hunches and/or any persons particular feelings and/or beliefs on a subject. While I choose to disagree with you on this subject, I do like that you are willing to explore every available avenue to provide the best possible care to your funchkins. FYI I adore your siggie and think it's fantastic that you took the time to acknowledge the artist.
 

VictoriaVague

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Can anyone recommend these bulbs made by Avian Sun? Product
 

Chicobo

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We use a sway lamp over the cage -- it allows us to keep the lamp close to the cage without worrying about covering and uncovering the cage, the birds knocking it over, the cat knocking it over, etc.

It works well for us, and the birds love it. And you can get one that plugs right into the wall, instead of wiring it into the existing electric :)
 

MissEdie

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Yes Yes! :hehe: I LOVE those..I had to keep myself from ordering a few times...maybe soon I can get some!
I love the moonlight idea-my african grey sometimes gets startled at night and falls off his perch...it would also help me cause I could see at night when I walk past the bird room to the kitchen:lol:

Kathy sells those too..and you can use your 10% discount
So do you have the one with the moonlight feature? How do you like it? How does River like it? I love your birds' names by the way.
I use a blue florescent bulb for my finches because they get night frights. and like u said helps us see better going thru the house,lol

My Aviary came with 2, 8ft long FS lighting. The company recommends it for the finches. That's all I know about that. So I can't say much about it.
But they expected me to just feed them seed too. I don't, they get chop and other good for them foods too.
 

Stormcloud

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I do not recommend using flouro lighting at all near birds if you can avoid it. If you look closely at the ends of a flouro light you will see it flickering. This is because the tube is actually turning off and on with the frequency of the electricity supply (alternating current causes electrons to move from one direction, then stop, and then finally come from the other direction). Depending in which part of the world you live in it will be 50-60 times per second (50-60 Hertz). We don't notice it because our eyes can only notice changes up to around 30-45 Hertz. Birds can see changes at up to 160 Hertz (160 cycles per seconds) so flouro lighting must give them the Jimmy Brits. It would be like you or I be subjected to the flashing lights of a nightclub all the time. I replaced all the flouros in my home with the new LED ones. They don't flicker, they use half the power and last for 50,000 hours. Therefore I should never have to replace them and save some money as well, but they do cost a little bit more to purchase initially. :)
 

azcowgirl

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everyone is going to have different views on full spectrum lightening, i know from experience we put one 27 watt bulb in our livingroom and the dining room lights, and iy makes a world of difference, it looks so much more like sun light, our birds seem to be more active than when we used thre soft white bulbs. It is more like sunlight, dont know how much the birds are getting from it, but with their diet, i am not worried, so basically u need o do what u feel is best, and what is best for your birds
 

jmfleish

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Yes, I'm reincarnating this thread! I've done all the research on lighting and don't get anything but confused!:) I agree with Gerard and David in that these lights are probably not great for creating Vitamin D3 and your bird is better off getting the synthetic stuff from a good pellet. My birds are on a pelleted diet, mostly Roudybush. They also get fresh foods, although probably not as much as they should and I offer various varieties of Goldenfeast about once or twice a week. I do think that since parrots naturally see into the UV spectrum that they are probably going to be happier if we can provide them this type of light if for nothing else than to let them see the way they were meant to see. My question is, what kind of bulb should I be looking for then? We're in the process of redoing the basement and will be putting in pot lighting for resale value. Is there a bulb that will work in a standard light like this that is FS or should I buy something more specific for the birds that I would mount above their cages? I'm specifically worried mostly about Clancy CAG who is a rehome. He was fully feathered when he came to me 5 years ago and over the last two years, he's started to pull out feathers around his neck, although nothing else has changed. I have heard that people have noticed less picking, especially with their greys when they offered FS light, so I thought I should give it a try. Any suggestions?
 

Bailey

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I have Featherbrite bulbs in utility lights above both my cages. They are about 6-8 inches from the top of the cages. They are on a timer for 4 hours each day. :)
 

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Yes, I'm reincarnating this thread! I've done all the research on lighting and don't get anything but confused!:) I agree with Gerard and David in that these lights are probably not great for creating Vitamin D3 and your bird is better off getting the synthetic stuff from a good pellet. My birds are on a pelleted diet, mostly Roudybush. They also get fresh foods, although probably not as much as they should and I offer various varieties of Goldenfeast about once or twice a week. I do think that since parrots naturally see into the UV spectrum that they are probably going to be happier if we can provide them this type of light if for nothing else than to let them see the way they were meant to see. My question is, what kind of bulb should I be looking for then? We're in the process of redoing the basement and will be putting in pot lighting for resale value. Is there a bulb that will work in a standard light like this that is FS or should I buy something more specific for the birds that I would mount above their cages? I'm specifically worried mostly about Clancy CAG who is a rehome. He was fully feathered when he came to me 5 years ago and over the last two years, he's started to pull out feathers around his neck, although nothing else has changed. I have heard that people have noticed less picking, especially with their greys when they offered FS light, so I thought I should give it a try. Any suggestions?
http://forums.avianavenue.com/healthy-highway/103800-full-spectrum-lighting-not-usual-questions.html

Have a blast Jen. Here was phillips answer

I am emailing to find out about your F32T8/TL950 Fluorescent tubes.
I see that they are 5000k and 98 CRI. Could you tell me the UVA and UVB outputs on them if any?

Dear Customer,

Thank you for contacting Philips Lighting Customer Care.
I apologize for the delay in our response, I have checked with our Product Manager and have received the following response:
Lamp Type UV-FDA1 (W/cm^2) UV-FDA2 (W/cm^2) UV-FDA3 (W/cm^2)
F32T8/TL950 3.79E-06 7.13E-07 1.46E-08

Translation..... No UV outputs
 

jmfleish

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Thanks Sarah...lots of good information that I still can't really make sense out of! Have you decided on any bulbs yet? If you have, what did you go with and do you see a difference in your birds?



http://forums.avianavenue.com/healthy-highway/103800-full-spectrum-lighting-not-usual-questions.html

Have a blast Jen. Here was phillips answer

I am emailing to find out about your F32T8/TL950 Fluorescent tubes.
I see that they are 5000k and 98 CRI. Could you tell me the UVA and UVB outputs on them if any?

Dear Customer,

Thank you for contacting Philips Lighting Customer Care.
I apologize for the delay in our response, I have checked with our Product Manager and have received the following response:
Lamp Type UV-FDA1 (W/cm^2) UV-FDA2 (W/cm^2) UV-FDA3 (W/cm^2)
F32T8/TL950 3.79E-06 7.13E-07 1.46E-08

Translation..... No UV outputs
 

Macawnutz

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Thanks Sarah...lots of good information that I still can't really make sense out of! Have you decided on any bulbs yet? If you have, what did you go with and do you see a difference in your birds?
:rofl: I was going to say when you choose one... let me know. I guess we are both that confused. :huh:


I have bought a few. I think the difference with my setup is none of my lights are really near my birds. My guys are flighted and home roamers so anything to close or within reach would be dangerous. I have learned that the 5000 kelvin is really bright,I bought the 18W first and wow, I went with 8 watt the second time. I am also changing over a 5 bulb ceiling fixture though.

From what I have gathered and read, and I am still ready to be corrected. They need correct UV outputs to have them visually benefit from it. Otherwise you are just giving them the correct color bulbs (mimicking the sun at noon) Which would be different for us then it would be for them in their natural habit as we are much further north ;)

Have I seen a difference... No. But none of mine sit anywhere really near to them. What would I buy? The featherbrites are very close to correct if you have them at the right distance. But I also did most of my research on CFL's.

I have read this..... Parrot and Conure World

A full spectrum light for birds with a CRI (color rendering index) of 88 or higher contains enough UVA to achieve this. It is middle ultraviolet light (UVB) that causes Vitamin D synthesis in the skin. Most professionals agree that the UVB needs to be somewhere between 290 and 310 nanometers in wavelength and a color temperature of 5000 Kelvin for this to occur.

But I can not find anything to say this is true because yes the light with emit this, but the coating on some bulbs will block this. ( like the phillips tubes )
 

mrstweet

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Good thread :thumbsup:

I've considered adding full spectrum lighting for the tweeties because of the weather here and how it's too cold to take them out of doors regularly. I think they miss that.

However, their pellets and fresh diet should be providing the proper nutrients. So is the cost really worth the perceived benefit? I think...not, surprisingly. Instead, I will just make sure they get outside whenever we can!
 

yvette

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I have always thought about getting full spectrum lighting....for my grey.

Had him for 4 years now, and I also have provided a great diet, lots of showers, toys, plenty of sleep, out of cage time, and outside in the summer. He is in perfect feather and very happy. I dont think Im going to get them. I dont want to change anything! Things are great now....So maybe its really not needed. Just my personal opinion.:)
 

danadear

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I am still confused on this and keep putting it off. I did read recently the opinion that absorbing Vit D through pellets is just not the same as absorbing it naturally through sunlight and that makes sense to me so I am determined to get this FSL thing nailed down when we get in the new house. I was thinking of track lighting over the cages but unsure of the distance of the bulb and then concerned about the birds playing with the light when they are on top of the cage. I have just about decided to use the clip on bulbs when we are not at home and they are in their cages and then just remove them when we come home and let them out. What a pain though!
 

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I am still confused on this and keep putting it off. I did read recently the opinion that absorbing Vit D through pellets is just not the same as absorbing it naturally through sunlight and that makes sense to me so I am determined to get this FSL thing nailed down when we get in the new house. I was thinking of track lighting over the cages but unsure of the distance of the bulb and then concerned about the birds playing with the light when they are on top of the cage. I have just about decided to use the clip on bulbs when we are not at home and they are in their cages and then just remove them when we come home and let them out. What a pain though!
I tend to agree that real sunlight is definitely better than artificial D3 in their food but sometimes you just don't have a choice. After all the research that I've done on the subject, I think that it's very hard to get real Vit D3 from artificial bulbs and that's even if you know what bulbs to buy. Just like the food isn't as good as the sun, neither are the light bulbs and the light bulbs can cause more harm than good in eye problems, so you do want to be careful. Other than that, I'm probably not much help...
 

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Back to square one. Phooey! The cage mounted type is not a good option, for the info provided from Laselva and because I have playtop cages so it would be a PITA to put them on and off..the swag light thing won't work because my cages are really tall and close to the ceiling. The only other option is the freestanding lamps but for my two cockatoos that's going to be tricky because I am using all of the space available on the wall where they are for their cages..no space left. So that means actually putting the lamp in front of the cage..awkward. The space they are in does not get very much light from the windows.

My birds get outside on the porch at least twice a week from 3 to 5 hours or more each time. They have not been out during the week lately because it's been so hot here and still sweltering when I get home from work so they are down to weekend mornings. I need to add more light to both rooms where my birds are so I thought that if I am adding lights specifically for the birds I may as well go the FSL route.

Something tells me I am going to still be unable to decide and then do nothing. :confused:
I am amazed and glad that this post got revived today. I was going to post a new thread, because even though I have read the archives I remain confused. And in this case, it doesn't seem like it would be ok to just "add something-it couldn't do any harm". Because it arguably could harm. I don't have any specific reason to add UV avian lighting, except that I want what's the very best for my birds. I'm sure most everyone feels that way.

I guess the last word in my case is coming from my vet, who has raised lots of greys, (I have a GCC and a Grey). He has unequivocally opined to me that my birds don't need artificial light. He said take them outside in their travel cages 2-3 times a week. I reminded him that HELLO, WE LIVE IN OREGON he pointed out that the suns beneficial rays make it through the cloud cover. So I'm going to try that. I've already done it once and it seemed to be also a good exposure/experience for the grey, who does need to be introduced to new things regularly to help avoid phobic behavior.

So, Danadear, I expects Minnesota and Oregon may be somewhat similar from the standpoint of sunshine. I add that my house is a little dark, being situated under lots of trees. Big ones.
 
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