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Full spectrum lighting..what set up do you have?

danadear

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Four of my birds are in the dining room and I would like to use FS lights in the overhead fixture. It is a ceiling fan (we don't turn it on but house is a rental so can't take down) with four bulbs. Would you use four FS bulbs in it or is that too much?

Two birds are in the living room in separate cages, no overhead light. I was thinking of lamps or something for them.

The FS lighting subject always gets me confused so I give up on it and don't make a decision but I know I need to get this done.

Suggestions?
 

WallyLoopey

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I'm kinda busy but I just saw this and wanted to reply real quick.

Alot of people will disagree with me, but my setup comes from having reptiles over the years. My sources come from various reptile book I keep in the house, which are all older so the information may be outdated-but I still go by it to be safe.

I have two of the A&E 30x40 cages and over each one is a 30" flourescent fixture. These hold the 24" bulbs. I use the reptisun 5.0 bulbs.

I know someone will correct me, but from what I've read in the past- UV doesn't pass through glass or plastic and it only travels 12 inches. That's why I've always kept my lights right on the cage. The birds dont mess with these because they are low profile and I dont worry about inside dangers because they dont produce hardly any heat. You could also mount these on your wall behind your cage.

I've also read that the flourescent lights are more powerful in uv than the incadescent. I only started seeing the incadescent uv bulbs in the last few years.

Like I said, my sources are probablly outdated, reptiles require more uv than birds-but most diurnal animals require/do better with uv so I try to provide as much as I can. As far as lighting goes, all my past reptiles and birds have done great.
 

danadear

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Thanks for responding! I really appreciate the feedback. Two of my cages are the same size 40 x 30. I need to start buying these lights, especially for my cockatoos as the room they are in is really not light enough anyway.
 

JokerGirl

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Not entirely true. Most modern windows will only block UVB rays from entering, but do not block UVA rays. While UVB is what is required by birds to produce their Vitamin D efficiently, it is unlikely that a parrot on a modern diet will ever become Vitamin D deficient. This was something primarily seen in captive parrots that were fed un-enriched seed diets. UVA, on the other hand, is what birds use for colour definition in sight.

While you'll hear a lot of recommendations for using a full spectrum lamp, it's not necessary with most parrots as their diets should already have a sufficient amount of vitamins contained within it. I don't use them, and never have. Both of mine have a window to themselves, but it's more because it's good mental stimulation on them - being able to sun themselves and see what's going on.
 

WallyLoopey

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My cages are also in front of windows to let some natural light in, but I don't count on the uv coming through it..it's mo0re or less for them to just see outside.

Also if your cage mix has seeds and pellets, you really can't be sure how much of the pellets they're actually eating...unless you're putting it in your birdie bread or other foods. Some pellets don't contain any Vitamin D at all.

When I first got Loopey around 8 years ago I didn't use any lighting, but he had access to a window. Since using the lighting and putting him in the outdoor aviary on some days, I have seen an increase in appetite and feather condition.

So it may not be NESSECARY for parrots, but I know mine PREFER it. As for reptiles....put an iguana in a cage in front of a window where the sun shines through..don't give any vitamin d or lighting-he will surely die within 6months-to a year. I just don't feel safe without providing my indoor animals special lighting. In their natural habitat their light isn't filtered through any glass whatsoever-and most of these birds come from a tropical climate and stay in the canopy where it gets the most sun.
 

WallyLoopey

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Dana,
I like the looks of the lights that Kathy sells on MSBS...the featherbrite (I think that's the brand) cage top lights. I have only heard good things about them and might add one to each of my cages in the future, including my flourescents. The birds just really seem to enjoy the light.
 

WallyLoopey

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Yes Yes! :hehe: I LOVE those..I had to keep myself from ordering a few times...maybe soon I can get some!
I love the moonlight idea-my african grey sometimes gets startled at night and falls off his perch...it would also help me cause I could see at night when I walk past the bird room to the kitchen:lol:

Kathy sells those too..and you can use your 10% discount
 

danadear

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Awesome! I think i am going to start buying them. I will have to buy one or two at a time though..not cheap..and I need six of them!

:eek:
 

Feather Mom

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I have one of those from Kathie for River's cage. For Pepper's I have the FS bulb in a clip on desk lamp on top of her cage. To keep the cord away we put a little hook in the wall behind the cage and have the cord pulled across and through it. One of these days I will get Pepper one like RiverKs. I like that the "feet" of it have little hooks inside that you can hang toys from.
 

WallyLoopey

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Ooooh I like the toy hanging plus! I feel for you Dana....6!! :lol:
 

danadear

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Well actually I guess I can get away with four since my tiels will be back in the same cage soon and my baby IRN will be joining my other IRN soon. Yeah..just four. That's better.
 

danadear

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I have one of those from Kathie for River's cage. For Pepper's I have the FS bulb in a clip on desk lamp on top of her cage. To keep the cord away we put a little hook in the wall behind the cage and have the cord pulled across and through it. One of these days I will get Pepper one like RiverKs. I like that the "feet" of it have little hooks inside that you can hang toys from.
So do you have the one with the moonlight feature? How do you like it? How does River like it? I love your birds' names by the way.
 

LaSelva

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Given the fact most bulb advertisements would have a person mount a light on top of their birds cage and subject their bird to this for hours, and that this has been shown to be not only without benefit but actually harmful, I feel the need to post information contradictory to this frequently recommended practice. This post will contain relevant quotes from an article on birds and lighting sprinkled throughout. I hope its not choppy reading and instills some understanding. There was a member on another forum, a year or so back who wrote about how her bird got sunburned eye patches and one eye red and swollen for two days due to a cage mounted light.

"The author invites the reader to take a fluorescent lamp assembly and sit with it about a foot or two away from his/her face for twelve hours and then assess if they believe this to be a pleasant experience."

"Placing a device right on top of a bird is unfomfortable and a disturbance to it's visual acuity and metabolic process."

"Whenever possible, mounting from the ceiling is the best and most natural method.............The concept of placing it closer to the cage is an artifact of reptile keeping, and is unnecessary and possibly detrimental for the captive bird. Overhead suspension accomplishes two things. First, the light is directed downward, as it would appear in the outdoors. This ensures that your bird perceives the light as coming from a natural direction. In this manner, light direction cues are delivered consistent with what the avian brain expects to experience. It also makes for a good saturation of light, both visible and invisible into the cage area. Objects are illuminated equally in this fashion, and are placed into proper visual perspective. Secondly, it is easier to control the intensity of light reaching cage areas. Too bright a light is not a good thing. If the area looks over-lit, it probably is. The same rules of visual comfort that apply to humans apply to your bird.

A bird's brain is not in darkness like ours. It receives light through their skulls from outside. We also have to consider that parrots spend most of the day in the shade relaxing, preening, dozing, etc. to avoid overheating and the direct rays of the sun. They are most active in the early morning and evening when sunlight is attenuated by the Earths atmosphere.

To clear up some confusion on the subject of lighting

There are two categories of fluorescent full spectrum:

a) General Illumination. "A general illumination lamp that may be properly termed full spectrum has a CRI (color rendition index) of greater than 90, and a Color Temperature of greater than 5000K. These devices are not intended as a source of UV irradiation, but do produce small amounts of UVA (near-range ultraviolet) as a byproduct of their operation."

These are the fluorescent full spectrum bulbs and ballasts available at Home Depot, etc. They are not UVA or UVB (mid-range ultraviolet light) which is involved in vitamin D synthesis. Again, that’s ok because our birds do not need bulbs for vitamin D synthesis…..

“Most pelletized diets, and a balanced natural diet contain cholecalciferol or calciferol, a precursor to Vitamin D3. The presence of UVB is not necessary for birds to convert this form to usable and sufficient levels of Vitamin D. “


But, if this is your goal or purpose in lighting then the only way to achieve this is through a fluorescent UVA/UVB bulb.

b) Specialty Illumination. These are UVA/UVB, marketed as "Avian Bulbs." They are "Specialty illumination devices, such as the pet series (Vitalite, et al.) and tubes for seasonal affective disorder (Ott, et al.) contain varying amounts of ultraviolet light in the near (UVA) and possibly middle (UVB) ranges in addition to meeting the general illumination criteria. "

Here are some issues with these bulbs:

1)“UVB irradiance is weak, is unbalanced negatively in relation to natural sunlight levels, and does not travel as far from the lamp as visible light. With this in mind, the popular concept has been to place the lighting source as close as possible to the bird to achieve useful exposure for natural pre-vitamin D (cholecalciferol) synthesis “

"When Dr. John Ott was researching the effects of light on various plants and animals, it became quickly apparent that imbalances in the spectrum of light delivered could affect the organism in a variety of ways. Applying this research to humans, imbalances in lighting have been shown to cause depression, lethargy, decreased immune response, and in some cases, agitation and aggressive behaviors. Each factor noted in the human species has a direct equivalent for animals of all species. "

2) UVB output degrades quickly….

”efficiency will have degraded after six months to where the device is generally useless in playing a part in the Vitamin D synthesis process”

But the dangers of a bulb kept so close to your bird remain…..

3) “Another problem concerns avian visual and endocrine disturbances from the visible and UVA output of the lamp at close range. Improper lighting can bring on varied health problems; behavioral and breeding disorders which are often attributed to other sources. These symptoms and problems include but are not limited to: lack of strength and endurance; feather and toe picking; restlessness and agitation; decreased immune response; abnormal sex ratios in breeder situations. Therefore, how could one even consider an arbitrary close distance appropriate for the health and environmental comfort of their bird?

Stronger UVB output bulbs don't help the degrading and weak output factor but make matters worse:

"Concentrations of UVB in fluorescent tubes can be increased, but due to the amount of barium based phosphors involved, these devices are no longer lamps which can produce a suitable visible spectrum. When manufactured in this manner, the lamp becomes either a reptile series lamp or tanning (erythemal) device, and must necessarily be regulated or controlled in exposure to prevent damage to humans and animals. The effective life span of these devices is also short, as noted by the previous discussion. Unnecessarily increasing the UVA/UVB to peak levels may cause problems to present themselves in the form of retinal degeneration, cataract formation, and calcium/bone disorders. "


My only purpose in posting this is to avoid harm to our birds through advertisements that are incomplete/misleading and may possibly cause well-meaning owners to harm their birds. I tried to sum it up but for further reading Google author Patrick R. Thrush.
 
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WallyLoopey

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:) thank you for pointing out this article. I do understand the sunburn issue. I believe if the owner uses common sense, the light can be cage mounted safely. Just like I would do with my reptiles, my lights are on one end of the cage therefore providing my bird room to move out of the light if it so chooses. My cage is also almost as tall as me, giving my birds plenty of room to move to the bottom as well, and they do so frequently for foraging purposes. There are also tents in all of my cages that would provide shade if they wanted it.

I believe if the light was bothering the birds in particular, they would move away. It really comes down to the owner making their own informed decision either way. You're going to find articles that will contradict each other, just like the kibble vs raw for dogs and the flighted vs clipped.....

Only you know what's best for your individual bird and no one way has to be right.

Another option would be to only Leave the lights on for a certain amount of time each day.
 

danadear

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Thank you! This is why I stay confused on the subject. Just not sure what to do..as soon as I think I know what I want to do, information comes along to make me confused.

Laselva do you feel that using no FS lighting at all is better than using the cage mounted type?

So...I thought maybe I should get a swag type light since my cages are playtop and it would be less of a pain than taking the cagetop mounted ones on and off all the time..but my cages are so tall that there's not that much space between the ceiling and the top of the play area. Now I am just at a loss. I guess I could use the stand type.

Still would really love some suggestions.
 

LaSelva

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"Laselva do you feel that using no FS lighting at all is better than using the cage mounted type?"

I do. I've had birds long before avian FS lighting came along, or maybe I was too young to know about it.

But, some general thoughts......

Before implementing artificial lighting IMO the first thing to do is consider what our bird is missing in its life that artificial lighting would add. In other words, why does my bird need this as opposed to the regular lights in my home along with the ambient lighting from outside for its photoperiod? Especially if that light is fine for us and our birds seem happy without it. All else being equal (exercize, social interaction, good diet).

Keeping in mind that there’s a distinction between the benefits birds derive from the sun and what we are talking about here which is, of course, artificial. And, that there are no facts that prove that artificial light sources benefit our birds. A lot of advertisements seem to use a sales pitch that equates their bulb with the sun, as in “birds benefit from the sun something, something, so your bird will benefit from our bulb," - paraphrased but you get it. Obviously a false association….no surprise, they want the sale, and are not lying, just misleading. A lot of websites seem to repeat the same advertising spiel when it comes to their section on bird lighting.

When I speak to people it usually turns out that most have a very vague idea of why they use bird lighting at all (without researching deeper they probably just think it's the right thing to do) as well as a misunderstanding of what their bulbs actually do compared to why they bought them. For example, the most common misconception I hear is that any full spectrum bulb aids in vitamin D synthesis. If you read the above that’s not true. And again, the ones that do cannot be implemented without the dangers associated.

Given the specifications of the bulbs used for artificial lighting, which speak for themselves, and that there are no facts that back up any benefit of artificial lighting for birds, and the activities of birds with regards to daylight, under normal circumstances I see no good reason to treat a bird like a houseplant any more than I would a cat.
 
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wonderb

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Very interesting information, LaSelva, thank you for sharing! I've gone back and forth on the FS lighting issue a lot. I don't necessarily believe that synthetic vitamin D precursors in pellets are providing optimal levels of vitamin D. I have always maintained that there is no true replacement for real sunshine, but that is not always possible. I live in an apartment in Minnesota, so even in the summer, outside time is challenging.

I use a floor lamp with an adjustable arm which extends over one side of the cage. My bird often chooses to cat nap right under the light, which makes me think it might actually feel good to her. I agree that putting a light directly on the top of the cage, when they cannot get away from it, is not the best solution. It is important to keep in mind that adequate vitamin D is necessary for proper immune function. I wish more research was done about this issue!
 

Cinnyluver

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I have a mild reptile bulb in a lamp that I put near the birds cages. Once the bird room's done, I want to put some UVB lights in the ceiling.
 

danadear

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Back to square one. Phooey! The cage mounted type is not a good option, for the info provided from Laselva and because I have playtop cages so it would be a PITA to put them on and off..the swag light thing won't work because my cages are really tall and close to the ceiling. The only other option is the freestanding lamps but for my two cockatoos that's going to be tricky because I am using all of the space available on the wall where they are for their cages..no space left. So that means actually putting the lamp in front of the cage..awkward. The space they are in does not get very much light from the windows.

My birds get outside on the porch at least twice a week from 3 to 5 hours or more each time. They have not been out during the week lately because it's been so hot here and still sweltering when I get home from work so they are down to weekend mornings. I need to add more light to both rooms where my birds are so I thought that if I am adding lights specifically for the birds I may as well go the FSL route.

Something tells me I am going to still be unable to decide and then do nothing. :confused:
 
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