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Female Grey has Arteriosclerosis

Geddybird

Moving in
Joined
9/21/17
Messages
9
Location
Whidbey Island Washington
Hi all,
My female Grey (13 years) has been diagnosed with Arteriosclerosis. Found through a series of tests that began when she began to self mutilate her back and under wing areas. She has been in and out of bandages and collars for the last year and has been on a series of antibiotics, Gabapentin, Hydroxocine, and her most recent test (very expensive) Cardio echo found the Arteriosclerosis. She is now on two heart medications as well as the others mentioned, and is in a collar to heal most recent bouts with mutilation. I am at my wits end with all of this. Have spent thousands of dollars, and she is doing no better than when I first took her into the vet the day before Thanksgiving 2017. She has been on the heart medication for the last two weeks and is actually acting more withdrawn than she was. I am thinking of just saying no to this medication but Vet says this may be the cause of her mutilation to begin with. It has been such a stressful time for me and my bird and I love her so much. She used to be so social and has become a screaming lunatic. Ideas, help, sympathy, whatever I can get from you guys is greatly appreciated. m
 

Kellie Jo

Checking out the neighborhood
Joined
12/14/18
Messages
2
I am sorry to hear this..I also have a Male grey 13 years old that recently started feather plucking under wings..Atrio to the vet is in his future...
 

Kodigirl210

Rollerblading along the road
Joined
10/13/18
Messages
1,403
Location
Cali
@Geddybird - I can’t say what you are doing is right or wrong. We all have to make that decision for ourselves. I can tell you that Gabapentin is a Parkinson’ s medication & is also used to Fibromyalgia. It is meant to diminish neural stimulation or in other words makes you a functional zombie. If your Grey is on that it would explain the withdrawal. When we look at these things I think there are 2-questions that we have to answer 2 very important but very sad questions. 1. Does your fid have a good quality of life. Not saying it has to be super or great but just good enough. 2. Are the treatments for your fid or to help you feel like you are doing something to fix things. I think the first questions is the most important. If you feel she doesn’t have a good quality of life then are the continued treatments really worth it? It could also be you aren’t aware of the side effects of Gabapentin. I am more than familiar with it and I don’t recommend anyone ever take it unless it is prescribed for Parkinson’s. That what is was made for & that’s all it should treat. It is a medication that requires increased dosage over time to maintain the neural dampening effect. To me being a zombie with no memories sucks & is not the answer. Find a different anti-anxiety or anti-depressant if that’s what your vet is aiming to prescribe. I think that if you weaned her off the medication she would return to the spitfire she was. And if you are still giving her that medication it is important that she is weaned thru lowering the dose. Cold turkey can cause extreme side effects. I am sorry you are going through this situ but I hope you find something helpful in what I’ve said. Best of Luck!!
 

RedFoxBlackSox

Walking the driveway
Joined
12/8/18
Messages
260
I’m so sorry to hear that :( I have no advice from a bird perspective, but rather from seeing family members go through treatments that made their quality of life decrease.

My mother had a brain anyeurism several years ago. They put her on so many medications- some were to lessen the side effects of others. And they made her feel so sick, and she looked at the mirror one day and her eyes were yellow! Also, she could hardly function because of how sick they made her.

She decided to stop taking most of them. I can’t tell you if this was the right decision or not, but on most days she seems much healthier and happier. I am of the opinion that, had she continued, the meds might have killed her. But I can’t say for sure.

What’s important here is that she made a decision to improve the quality of life for the days she does have; for her, to live longer while feeling much worse isn’t worth it.

I am not telling you to quit giving your bird medication. Just providing a perspective on things. Whatever you decide, you are doing what you think is best for your feather baby. <3
 

Hankmacaw

Ripping up the road
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Mary Lynn Skinner
@Geddybird
I'm afraid that my advice is directly contraindicative of @RedFoxBlackSox, @Kodigirl210 's advice.

Jasper has had heart disease and atherosclerosis for at least 18 years and has always and is now living a full life. Sure she and I have gone through some tough times, with the immense help of our vet, sorting this all out and getting her stabilized. She is alive and a total joy to me as I am to her.

She started her treatment immediately when the Dr. discovered all of her illnesses - that is important. She was given to me when she was 6 1/2 years old and I almost immediately noticed something wrong with her. She was gaining weight far too fast and she struggled to breath with just the minimum exercise. It's a long story how she got diagnosed 18 years ago, but she did.

She had occlusion of both aortas, she had congestive heart disease, she had the beginnings of atherosclerosis and terrible arthritis in both feet and legs. She was started right away on Lasix for the reduction of accumulation of fluids (her fast weight gain), Enalapril for her high blood pressure and congestive heart disease and Metacam for her extreme pain in her feet and legs (Metacam also reduces swelling so that helped with her circulation). She improved immediately, but still had a long ways to go and many more medications. That was 18 years ago, is your girl worth eighteen more years of life? Yes Jasper's atherosclerosis is worse now and she has side effects from it and I know she will die, but neither one of us nor her Dr. are quitting.

You brought your birds into your life. They didn't come knocking at your door and demand to be let in and that you take care of them. I'm pointing out to you and everyone who gives up that you never give up - never, never.

I'm pointing out that there are solutions - maybe not perfect solutions, but solutions.

PS - Jasper is and has been on Gabapentin for five years now and she is anything but a Zombie bird. Maybe you just need to change her dosage or to one of the other multitude of pain killers.
 

Kodigirl210

Rollerblading along the road
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Cali
@Hankmacaw - I think you are totally misreading what I said. Nowhere did I state to give up on her Grey. I said if the medication isn’t improving her quality of life then try something else. Don’t keep giving something that is making side effects worse or making her worse. It’s great that the med your vet prescribed for your bird but every patient is different & everyone responds differently. To suggest because something works for you must mean that it has to work for someone else is counterintuitive otherwise no one would be sick anywhere, ever. I would never, ever suggest someone give up on their fid and I truly resent that you suggested it. Reread my post. I suggested with my own personal experience that Gabapentin can cause a depressed attitude/behavior. If the issue was to keep the multinational/depression at bay try something else instead. Please be careful that you don’t put your own intent on someone else’s post. Thank You!!!!!
 

Hankmacaw

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I think there are 2-questions that we have to answer 2 very important but very sad questions. 1. Does your fid have a good quality of life. Not saying it has to be super or great but just good enough. 2. Are the treatments for your fid or to help you feel like you are doing something to fix things. I think the first questions is the most important. If you feel she doesn’t have a good quality of life then are the continued treatments really worth it?

How could anyone take this any way other than you saying that she might want to give up on her bird Perhaps you could have been clearer by wording it differently.

PS - Jasper is and has been on Gabapentin for five years now and she is anything but a Zombie bird. Maybe you just need to change her dosage or to one of the other multitude of pain killers.
She improved immediately, but still had a long ways to go and many more medications.

Doesn't sound, to me like I am projecting myself onto your beliefs. Appears to be the opposite to me.



 

Just-passn-thru

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Cost can be a factor for many that do not have the resources to continue with treatment of multiple complex conditions .

This puts an extraordinary amount of guilt on caregivers who want only to do what's best for their companion birds.

"Never giving up " or doing the "Best You Can " should be taken into consideration on an individual basis and prognosis .

Ultimately the decision is yours what you feel is best , and what course of treatment " if any " is between you and your Avian vet for the best possible outcome.
 
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RedFoxBlackSox

Walking the driveway
Joined
12/8/18
Messages
260
@Hankmacaw I think you might have misunderstood my comment as well. I guess because of past experiences, I have a reluctance to trust medication/drugs. In America especially, we are overmedicated by the drug industry. Not in all cases, but many. My boyfriend's dog (although they live in Germany) can never eat normally again because she was given a worm medication that basically killed her gall bladder. She is able to live a happy life for the most part, but she can get very sick when she eats. Even with her current meds, she still has not so good days. And this didn't just happen to her, but many dogs before they connected the side effects of that particular med.

So the essence of my comment isn't to give up on her feather baby, but rather that medication can sometimes cause more misery than alternative remedies, and to not blindly trust it. This isn't, of course, to say I don't think you should trust any vet. I took my Peaches just last Thursday, and am giving him antibiotics and a cream that the doctor prescribed twice daily. :3
 
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