Enlarged crop (sad update #12)

[SunTruth]

Hello all,

I am writing because I am worrying about the senegal parrot of my family. For context I do not live home usually and I came back recently, and I can only compare how I see him before and after several months.

Here is the story:

- we always had trouble getting our bird on pellet. Usually he eats mostly fruits or vegetable, sometime almonds. He is the first bird in our family and I am sure we might make some mistakes;

- in my opinion he gained some weight during the last year. Putting him on a scale is really difficult, so I do not have an objective measures, but I find him bigger;

- two month ago, one morning he regurgitated. It happened again like two weeks ago according to my family, and it happened in the morning.

When I came back this week I found that after eating (in this case it was a part of a peach), his crop was enlarged. I am not an expert in birds but I know usually after eating they have enlarged crop until it come back to normal. I thought yesterday that the crop would be back to normal the next morning, but actually while it reduced it was still not flat in the morning.

We already have an appointment to the vet but after reading some informations online I wonder if it could be a crop infection. I do not find him lethargic (as compared to before, we always have seen him quiet), his poop seems normal (the green color). The thing worrying me is really this crop size.

If any of you can give an opinion (I know it does not replace a visit to the vet and one visit is already planned) thank you.

 

[Zara]

It could help to include the age of your bird.

I hope all goes well at the vet.

 

[SunTruth]

He is 5 years old. This morning apparently the crop was more flat but anyway only the vet will be able to tell.

 

[SunTruth]

Hello all,

I come back with more questions because the issue is not solved and I am worrying.

OK so I told you about the enlarged crop and the regurgitation/vomiting. In between, tuesday, my family has seen a vet with him. He checked the crop, removed some food inside, and gave some medication while asking to bring him back in case he vomits. If I understood these medication are supposed to prevent vomiting and there is another one called meloxical.

Since then we monitored what he was eating, and he did not regurgitate/vomit and the crop was not as enlarged. However this morning he ate maybe more than the other days (watermelon, almonds, some seed) and once again he regurgitated. I cannot tell if it looks like regurgitation or vomiting, but there were non digested seed. The way he does it its just look like first he turns his necks several times, then the food get back from the beak slowly, not very liquid. Apart from that he acts normal, his behavior did not change.

I will call back the vet next week but in between I have some questions, in case any of you hear something similar:

- can a bird overeat to the point of making himself unconfortable and then regurgitating? We only have seen him doing this behavior after eating more than usual;

- could it be hormonal? I ask that because when I posted my first message I forgot to tell that the day before (last monday), he was playing with me and he started clearly to regurgitate as a sign of friendship. It is the only time I have seen him doing that on me.

Thank you for any answer.

 

[WillowQ]

I wonder if he’s doing hormonal regurgitation.
That is when they pump their head up and down and some food comes into the beak. They will often smack their beak after doing this.
vomiting looks like the bird violently shaking his head “no!” and also shaking to clear vomitus from the mouth. Typically food or liquid flies all over and gets on the head and surroundings. I have seen that only in a carsick parrot.
i hope your bird is ok. If the food coming up is associated with playing or getting really excited then i would think it’s regurging a treat to share. Yum yum!

 

[SunTruth]

I wonder if he’s doing hormonal regurgitation.
That is when they pump their head up and down and some food comes into the beak. They will often smack their beak after doing this.
vomiting looks like the bird violently shaking his head “no!” and also shaking to clear vomitus from the mouth. Typically food or liquid flies all over and gets on the head and surroundings. I have seen that only in a carsick parrot.
i hope your bird is ok. If the food coming up is associated with playing or getting really excited then i would think it’s regurging a treat to share. Yum yum!

Hello!

Thank you very much for your response. Yeah it is also what I am considering given his energy and the fact that he has really an agressive behavior as compared as before. Everything seems more than usual.

 

[WillowQ]

I have owned parrots for decades and have only a couple times seen vomiting. It’s usually regurgitation as a lovey bird gets even more lovey…

 

[Pixiebeak]

Hormonal regurge would not cause crop swelling.

With much of the diet being sugary fruits , ..I'd think there could be an imbalance of flora. Or low nutritional issues.

Follow your veterinarian recommendations.

I'd offer some plain Greek yogurt with no artificial sweeteners . Half a teaspoon a day for a week, and then every other day or so for another week and then once a month or randomly has helped my birds with inot issues. And all were willing to eat it. I offer from a finger, first time offering itouch to beak tip, then wait for the to try, and the they lick. I'm not say this cure anything. But it might be beneficial and won't hurt anything.

You might also try baby bird formula, make up thicker and offer from fingers , still nice and warm. It's easily digestible and most commercial brands also contain probiotics.

Also cooked mashed Sweet potatoes, pumpkin and squash. The fiber might be helpful.

Include more veggies in diet, leafy greens like romaine lettuce, swiss chard and such . Dint starve or force . Just start offering in many different ways, shredded, wholr chunks, fresh, and steamed . Expect waste but in time I hope yours will love as much as mine do.

I also offer a little boiled or scrambled egg once a week or so

 

[WillowQ]

There are bird oriented bene-bac powders, too. But Pixiebeak’s suggestions are all great.

 

[SunTruth]

Hello,

Thank you all for your advices. The thing is that first I did not even understand it could be regurgitation because instead of moving his neck up and down as I was reading they do, he was moving his neck clockwise (on the side) then between each move it was like he was chewing on something.
I bring him back once again to the vet this week and the vet said that if he was extra energetic, agressive… it could be hormonal. He said if he happens to be tired, lethargic… then there could be something else. The thing is that he really eats a lot these days.

I am going to try with the yogurt.

 

[SunTruth]

Also these last few days here is what happens:

- the crop is not enlarged;

- I noticed times when he is drinking a lot of water (usually I almost never seen him drinking as much);

- like 10 sec after drinking either he regurgitates it, either he starts the move with his neck (as I was saying it is like if he was moving his head like a clock but when you look at him from the face.. I mean he is nit turning his neck);

- when he does that after every movement he chews but it is like nothing what coming out.

At the meantime he is extra agressive and extra hungry. Honestly I am a little bit lost, the vet said it could be hormonal but even while doing internet search I dot find anyone talking about a similar behavior.

 

[SunTruth]

Hello,

I did not want to post this message because it is still very hard for me, but I consider that maybe someday someone with the the same issue will find this message and it will help this person and his parrot.

My best friend, the main member of our family passed away this week. In between my last message more than one month ago and this message, things went fine apart he was hormonal. He did not regurgitate food or water anymore, was very active and was eating well. I was home all this time with him and I did not see him make the move I was talking about with his neck. Then I had to leave home two weeks ago. According to my mom things were fine until one morning this week when he woke up and did not eat. During the day he did again the thing with water: drinking some then spitting some. Exactly like in July. He went to sleep at night and my mom felt something was wrong and took another appointment to the vet. She found him passed away the next morning.

Right now we are devasted by the loss of him. I just considered that this message could help someone in the future. I am not sure I will come back here in the future it is too painful. I thank anyone that tried to help us, I wish the best to members of this forum and their parrots. Cherish him every day.

 

[Zara]

I am very sorry for your loss.

 

[Pixiebeak]

I'm so sorry for your loss.

Thank you for updating and sharing the sad outcome. These stories are important, and we never know how many people are going to be helped by them.

I do know the pain of loss, and I wish you didn't have to go through it. But maybe it is there to do as you say , cherish each day . To celebrate love , to cherish those we share life's journey with .

 

[Mizzely]

I'm so sorry they leave such giant holes in our heart for how tiny they are

 

[WillowQ]

I am so sorry for your loss. I know you have a lot of questions and it’s going to be hard that sometimes they will never be answered.

I am wondering if something more serious was going on with your Senegal, like an illness that slowed his digestive processes down. There is so much that we don’t know for sure.

 

[Emma&pico]

So sorry for your loss

 

[expressmailtome]

I am sorry for your loss.

 

[SunTruth]

Thank you all for your kind answer.

As I was saying it is really painful for us, and we feel so guilty about having or not having done something. I talked with some of you in private, particularly a long conversion with @WillowQ that I deeply thank.

I am going here to put everything that happened to my bird since may, leading to a potential explanation. Once again I am doing that thinking that back in time it would have been the kind of « experience » that could have helped me reading it. And I d not know maybe it will help someone else someday.

First I only live half of the yea home, because the rest of the time I work somewhere else. It is important to know in the sense that I do not have a full account of thing that happened since the beginning (particularly concerning the month of june). I also want to say we had my bird home since the beginning of 2022. If we understood he had two previous owners that did not keep him before, and he was 5.

Everything started at the end of may this year an evening. My bird rejected some food. I was home. It was not the typical regurgitation characterized by mouth movement (as I have seen in many video) neither was it the vomiting characterized by a speedy flow. It was more of a slow rejection of what he had in the beak/crop.

Two days after this event I left in the city I work and in the subsequent weeks my mom told me he was not doing the rejection anymore. However, my mom said he was very quiet (but he often was like this when I was not home) and did not eat a lot. In between my mom tried various other pellets and seed brands. I was afraid he was losing weight and asked my mom to take an appointement to the vet.

In july when I came back home I did not find that he had lost weight actually, and when we weighted him indeed he was still 140 g. We noticed he was overeating some seed at this time, and his crop was enlarged. The very morning of the vet appointement my mom took we found him in the cage on the bottom, rejecting food like in may but to a larger extent. The visit to the vet this same day leads to the vet telling us he might need some further exams but then that would require anethesia that could kill him. He gave us a medication for him to take (an anti inflamatory and something against vomiting/regurgitating) and told us that if it does not work to come back.

The regurgitation stopped but then we noticed the crop was still enlarged and he was overeating and overdrinking, and also doing a weird move with his neck apparently after drinking. We also caught him drinking and spitting what he had just drank. On the other hand he was not lethargic at all neither did he lost weight. He was quite energetic actually and agressive, and we considered he was hormonal. Then following that we bring him back to the vet (beginning of august) but in between the crop was not enlarged anymore. The vet told us it might be hormonal, to wait and see if the crop enlargement or the regurgutation went back.

It didnt from beginning of august to this week. We thought he might be cured and fine. Now in between something happen that might be related but indirectly: while usually he did not care about his toys, he started playing with them, breaking them and chewing them. My mom and I had the fear he might actually eat these piece of wood rather than just chewing them. I even ask question about wood chewing and eating in another post on this forum.

Then this week one morning he woke up and did not eat. Usually in the morning we were giving him a part of bird biscuit (these are egg biscuit with some seeds) that we let in the water before because apparently he loved this wet biscuit. He did not eat. I was away from work and in the evening my mom noticed him drinking a lot of water and doing the move with his neck. She tooks an appointement to the vet for the next day. She was worried so she woke up at 2:30 and found him sleeping with the crop enlarged. The next morning our beloved friend and member of the family was found having passed away.

OK now that anyone can get a full picture of the whole stories I had been bring by mp to the existence of proventricular dilatation disorder. I barely knew the existence of this disease but reading what were the symptoms here is what I found among them here: Pdd parrot - Symptoms And The diagnosis | Sick Parrot and Parakeet

« Constant or intermittent regurgitation.
Polyuria ( overproduction of urine ) and polydipsia ( excessive thirst ); the crop is always filled
with water.
Distended abdomen. »

And additionnaly in this paper Advanced Diagnostic Approaches and Current Management of Proventricular Dilatation Disease I found that:

« Birds affected by PDD often ingest foreign bodies, especially pieces of wood. These materials may then be passed through vomitus or feces. The bird may be ingesting these materials in an attempt to provide relief from intestinal discomfort. These birds may need toys and cage accessories that cannot be chewed or ingested, and may benefit from high-fiber vegetables to fill this need. »

So at the end I wonder was not suffering from PDD and we missed to find the cause of all of this.
If I say all of this I guess it is as much for me as much as for the community. This bird has been a meteor in our life, he changed everything to us and we are full of regret about what we could have done better. We were so afraid he might be sick and having to pass the exams with the risk of him dying, that when he came back to normal in august maybe we assumed too soon things were fine.
Addiitionnaly I wish this story will help people in the future that might be facing the same issue to deal better with them than we did.

I want to thank every member of this forum, specially @WillowQ . Right now with my mom we are facing the void he left and apart from trying to make sense of what happened I do not know what else we can do.