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Do you ever feel guilty about aviculture?

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GlassOnion

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Just because one didn't physically dirty his hands, does not necessarily mean he is innocent. Owners are encouraging birdkeeping whenever we post on the internet, take our birds outside, etc.

When we take our parrot outside in a densely populated area, at least SOMEONE will think it's cool and start wondering what it'd be like to have a pet parrot. This lone event could hypothetically trigger a purchase of a bird from a pet store or a breeder.
 

GlassOnion

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I've never thought about having a pet bird, until I saw a YouTube video of a tame pet finch. I used to think it was disgusting to keep a bird in a home.
That video is what started it all, I went out and bought a budgie from Petland- so I'm speaking from experience.
 
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lotus15

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I think that what I said was being misunderstood. I am not accusing anybody of owning a wild caught bird. What I am saying is that by owning a bird, period, and sharing the joy of owning one by putting up videos on YouTube and posting photos and stories on forums, we are spreading the love of birds. We are making birds and the relationship we have with birds desirable. And because of this, the wild caught bird trade skyrockets. Am I saying we are directly responsible? No, of course not. But we are indirectly contributing. Perhaps you shouldn't feel guilty but I certainly feel sad.

Anyway on a more individual level, I feel "guilty" as a parrot owner for all of my shortcomings. I think that generally most would think that my birds are pretty well cared for but there is so much more I could do. I don't have a Saroj-style outdoor flying room, I don't have massive indoor cages, I don't have pals for all of my birds, I don't grow them their own plants and trees. There is always room for improvement and as long as I can do better I will strive to, and I feel it is my duty to my parrots to do so and never to feel complacent about it. My guys may have been born in captivity as were their parents but that doesn't mean they are a domesticated animal. They still have many wild instincts and I am always trying to find ways to enrich their lives and create a more natural environment when I can.
 

BethySue

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I think if we influence others to own birds, we also need to educate them about the important issues involved in keeping birds. We have to be the birds' advocates. We can't save them all, but we can educate owners. They won't all listen, but we can try.

I still don't feel guilty about it. I feel ashamed, saddened, and angered, but not guilty.
 

jmfleish

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I agree that our pet birds are definitely not domesticated, but they aren't really wild either. They most likely would not survive if set free outside. Having said that, cats and dogs and cattle weren't always domesticated either...you have to start somewhere and if you get this gut level feeling of guilt over it, then the bigger question becomes, do you feel that we should have pets at all, or at least that's the way I see it. You can bash breeders all you want and you can feel guilty about buying a baby, but the bottom line is, if there weren't breeders, we'd have an even bigger problem with wild birds being removed from their surroundings.

I personally refuse to feel guilty about keeping parrots as pets in my home. They live a good life and I enjoy them and they enjoy me and their lives. They want for nothing. I cannot control what others do and stopped trying many years ago. I refuse to be held responsible for what happens in other countries, especially when I cannot control what happens in other countries. I think the whole guilt thing is very misguided and played by big corporations like HSUS and PETA who have much bigger agendas on their minds. Feel free to feel guilty if you want and watch your rights to own parrots go right out the door because of it.
 

SaraR

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Feel free to feel guilty if you want and watch your rights to own parrots go right out the door because of it.
it won't only be our rights to own parrots that go out the door but the right to own any animal that will disappear...

I also agree with what you said about them not be domesticated but not wild either i know for a fact that they would have no idea how to survive if they were set free right now. They have had their food given to them since day one and they would have no idea what would be ok to eat and what would be deadly to eat.
 

Nargle

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I do not feel guilty about owning Skittles. I have given him a good home, he's happy and healthy, he has the freedom to fly around my home, he has the entertainment of the surroundings I have provided him with, he has a healthy diet, he has safety and comfort. The only thing I regret is not having a friend for him other than myself, but that won't be forever. But I've done the best that I can, and Skittles seems happy, what more can I do? Just because he doesn't live in a tropical rainforest doesn't mean he doesn't have a good life.

I do feel extremely disturbed by the darker side of aviculture, though, such as neglect, abuse, capturing wild birds, etc. I think it's tragic and disgusting the way some people treat animals. All I can do though is refuse to support or fund these atrocities and only get birds from decent breeders or rehomes, and not buy supplies from pet stores that sell birds, etc.

Just because one didn't physically dirty his hands, does not necessarily mean he is innocent. Owners are encouraging birdkeeping whenever we post on the internet, take our birds outside, etc.

When we take our parrot outside in a densely populated area, at least SOMEONE will think it's cool and start wondering what it'd be like to have a pet parrot. This lone event could hypothetically trigger a purchase of a bird from a pet store or a breeder.
I'd much rather spread knowledge and encourage education than try to discourage people from owning birds altogether. If they don't get the idea from us, they'll get the idea from somewhere else. At least we can try to provide them with the tools to be better bird owners. If someone gets the idea from me to get a parrot, I'll try my hardest to explain to them what it means to be a responsible parrot owner.
 

sodakat

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Just because one didn't physically dirty his hands, does not necessarily mean he is innocent. Owners are encouraging birdkeeping whenever we post on the internet, take our birds outside, etc.

When we take our parrot outside in a densely populated area, at least SOMEONE will think it's cool and start wondering what it'd be like to have a pet parrot. This lone event could hypothetically trigger a purchase of a bird from a pet store or a breeder.
So? Are you saying that you think no more captive parrots should be bred? Many people buy their first bird from a pet store. I wish you would just say what it is you are against instead of talking about guilt.

Do you think all pet parrots should die of old age and no more be bred?

Also, why haven't you created an aviary in your home if you think your budgie would be happier living uncaged? I have made many changes to my home to give my birds better lives. You can too.
 

jenwren59

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I was thinking about this today, I feel really guilty for my birds- especially my budgie. They would be so much happier in a large aviary, being the birds that they are and having a real mate bond.
There is only so much I can do.. I feel selfish to keep them in here.

If someone had a large garden aviary for budgies and other small birds, I think I would consider it.
Lately, I'm feeling this more than I want to admit. I just can't give my birds the life they are supposed to have. No matter what. You know that saying about how "you remain forever responsible for what you have tamed"? It just plain hurts me some days when they are all crazy wanting to mate - or crazy looking to make a nestbox.

Then, I suck it up - they say something funny, I laugh and move on. :rolleyes: Sigh...

I keep trying to enlarge their lives. That will have to do...
 

GlassOnion

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Nargle- I agree that education is very important. I do try to educate when people ask about pet birds or when my friends show interest. Just sometimes I feel guilty, and I cant help it.

Sodakat- I would love to build an outdoor aviary! Honestly, I don't have the space or money, but if someone local had one, I would want to send my baby there.
One day, I dream of building a huge aviary and taking in various small birds. :)
 

carkam

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Yes. When I watch the birds flying, chirping, going from tree to tree hanging out with other bierds, it makes me sad for my guys. I know that they were not born into the wild and were raised to be a pet, but It makes me sad on how much they are missing out on even though I try and give them the best I am able to. And I agree, aviculture as a whole, I am ashamed at what humans have done.
 

sodakat

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...Sodakat- I would love to build an outdoor aviary! Honestly, I don't have the space or money, but if someone local had one, I would want to send my baby there.
One day, I dream of building a huge aviary and taking in various small birds. :)
You can start with an indoor space, especially since you are housing smaller birds. Here is what I did when I first divided my living room off for my Eclectus to have a bird room. You can do this! Go to a home improvement store and find wooden framed screen doors. They cost about 20 bucks apiece. Consider them panels. They are standard door height (6'8" I think). Buy either hings or L or T brackets to fasten them together. Obviously you want hinges on whichever one will be your entrance.

Start with 3 wide maybe. That will give you 90 - 108 inches depending on what width screen door you buy. If you have the room, make the aviary even wider. If you can screen off the end of a room like I did, you won't need sides. You will need some netting or a roll of replacment screening to attach to the ceiling and down to the top of the doors so the birds can't fly over the top. That's it.

I eventually replaced the screen with wire mesh because my birds soon realized they could chew holes in the screen and walk into the living room! The screens worked for the first summer though believe it or not.

I encourage you to try this. Not expensive and very rewarding for you and your birds.

This is my first attempt with just one cage:


This is how the panels look now that I added wire mesh and is why I say it looks like we are ready to host cage wrestling in our home:
 
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Karen

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Do you ever feel guilty about aviculture?
Terribly guilty. I give them the best and do the best I can but every fiber of me knows that these beautiful parrots were never meant to live in my house. IMO, they are living an unnatural life.
 

SandraK

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Yes and no. I've seen some of the awful photos of how birds were (and in some cases) still are shipped - packed into crates as if they were nothing more than stuffed animals with no regard for loss of life. And growing up in S. America I've seen how animals are sometimes treated to the point where it would make me cry. I'm guilty of having bought 2 Amazons when we lived in Brazil - one (Fat Stuff) was stuck in a small cage at a dry goods store and the second one (Dodo) I bought at a pet store. To this day I feel guilty because Dodo had a sibling and I didn't have enough money to buy them both. My mum and I had to hand feed Dodo because he had no clue how to eat. When we were transferred to the U.S. we gave Fat Stuff & Dodo to friends.

Now, here in the States I presently have 15 birds. One I bought at a pet shop, 5 are offspring of the birds I have (2 gccs & 3 tiels), 3 are adopted and the remaining 6 were bought from small local hobby breeders. I am giving my pets the best life I can, they are out of their cages for most of the day and most are free flighted (one, Daisy, suffered a broken wing as a feral Quaker baby and it was never set so she can't fly but does land fairly gracefully). I am happy knowing that the birds I own will step up for me and fly to me to hang out when they feel like it as well as when I put them on my shoulders. They'll also come and hang out on the sofa with the rest of the family when we're watching t.v. None were wild caught though that will never erase the images of birds stuffed in crates on a Sabena flight from Africa to Belgium.

I suppose you can say that I've supported aviculture but I've tried to steer clear of the bird mills as much as I knowingly can. And if possible I try to purchase the bird toys from people who make their own. My birds are 1 lovie, 4 gccs, 7 tiels and 3 very independent Quakers, nothing specifically exotic I suppose except they are all special in my mind.

And on a completely different note, Sodakat, your set-up is great and you've given me some definite ideas to work with in the family room at the back of the house we just moved into. Thank you for that.
 

Danita

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That is beautiful.
So the second picture, is that the same room but with no glass?

You can start with an indoor space, especially since you are housing smaller birds. Here is what I did when I first divided my living room off for my Eclectus to have a bird room. You can do this! Go to a home improvement store and find wooden framed screen doors. They cost about 20 bucks apiece. Consider them panels. They are standard door height (6'8" I think). Buy either hings or L or T brackets to fasten them together. Obviously you want hinges on whichever one will be your entrance.

Start with 3 wide maybe. That will give you 90 - 108 inches depending on what width screen door you buy. If you have the room, make the aviary even wider. If you can screen off the end of a room like I did, you won't need sides. You will need some netting or a roll of replacment screening to attach to the ceiling and down to the top of the doors so the birds can't fly over the top. That's it.

I eventually replaced the screen with wire mesh because my birds soon realized they could chew holes in the screen and walk into the living room! The screens worked for the first summer though believe it or not.

I encourage you to try this. Not expensive and very rewarding for you and your birds.

This is my first attempt with just one cage:


This is how the panels look now that I added wire mesh and is why I say it looks like we are ready to host cage wrestling in our home:
 

sodakat

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That is beautiful.
So the second picture, is that the same room but with no glass?
Yes it's the same room. Oh, I know what you mean. The wood in the background. This past winter we put solid insulation (foam) in each channel in the sunroom in order to keep it warmer, then covered that with plywood. We haven't taken them out yet this summer! On the right, which you can't see, the end wall is glass all the way to the curved glass ceiling. It's a 4-seasons sunroom like those things like many Wendy's restaurants have. It is about 11 x 18 feet I think, maybe a bit wider, can't recall. The first picture is when I used only half the space and the second picture is taken where you can only see the right end. We bought this product years ago and it's not held up well at all. But it sure works great for the birds and was one of my more brilliant ideas because they get bright light regardless of the temperature outside. It gets COLD here in South Dakota. Many days I go sit with them because they have the best spot in the house now. But this could be done in any room; a window in one wall would be nice of course.

Here's a better shot of what it looks like now.

 
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jenwren59

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You can start with an indoor space, especially since you are housing smaller birds. Here is what I did when I first divided my living room off for my Eclectus to have a bird room. You can do this! Go to a home improvement store and find wooden framed screen doors. They cost about 20 bucks apiece. Consider them panels. They are standard door height (6'8" I think). Buy either hings or L or T brackets to fasten them together. Obviously you want hinges on whichever one will be your entrance.

Start with 3 wide maybe. That will give you 90 - 108 inches depending on what width screen door you buy. If you have the room, make the aviary even wider. If you can screen off the end of a room like I did, you won't need sides. You will need some netting or a roll of replacment screening to attach to the ceiling and down to the top of the doors so the birds can't fly over the top. That's it.

I eventually replaced the screen with wire mesh because my birds soon realized they could chew holes in the screen and walk into the living room! The screens worked for the first summer though believe it or not.

I encourage you to try this. Not expensive and very rewarding for you and your birds.

This is my first attempt with just one cage:


This is how the panels look now that I added wire mesh and is why I say it looks like we are ready to host cage wrestling in our home:
This is awesome. This is exactly the ideas I was looking for out in the ENRICHMENT section (I posted there a couple of days ago). Can I get more pictures of what you have done?

I am going to try to "enclose" my whole living room to make it an "indoor aviary". I am trying to convice my husband to think bigger is better so we can use the whole room (and maybe the entire dining room gets bird-proofed too).

He gets so upset with my grey that is always on the floor trying to make a nestbox under the counters in the baseboards. Well- - it just means I have a job to do to get my grey his own room where he can do what he needs to do...
 

Nìmwey

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I can just say it seems a lot of people here have never read Mytoos.
I did already in early/mid teens, but didn't "get" it until after I got my cockatoo.
I suppose I wouldn't say the smaller birds, such as Poicephalus and conures are directly suffering from captivity (but still, if I got to choose, not a single parrot would be bred for the pet trade), not as much as the larger birds.

The small guys still lack the freedom that all wild birds have - the flock life, the flying of maybe several kilometers every day... but they are not as easy to mistreat as the bigger ones. Captivity alone, despite all the love and toys in the world and the biggest cage you can possibly find, can drive a cockatoo for example, to insanity.

I feel so greatly disappointed every time someone buys a chick of one of the larger species, like a cockatoo, macaw, amazon, etc. It feels like I've failed, and now, one more bird will be brought into this world, and one more unwanted bird lost the chance of a home.
 

sodakat

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I don't want to hijack this thread (probably too late :) ) but notice that I have covered the hardwood floor, both to protect the floor and to brighten the room more and help keep it a nest free zone. The last picture I posted makes it look dark and it's not at all. It think I was too far away when I took the picture. We can talk via PM or email and I have many more pictures I can share.

I hope you will build a nice indoor space you can share with your birds!
 
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