Afleetalex
Walking the driveway
- Joined
- 2/19/11
- Messages
- 168
Sometimes I do yes. But then I remember that I'm not supporting the aviculture industry as Apache is a foster bird. But I still feel bad for him as he was an ex-breeding bird.
No, *WE* don't put a demand on wild caught birds because we don't buy wild caught birds. If we only buy from responsible breeders, we have absolutely zero responsibility for birds taken out of the wild. I'm not creating a demand for anything, I refuse to purchase or own wild caught birds. I don't feel the need to take responsibility for anyone but myself.
Actually I'd guess that MOST of us only have rescue or captive bred parrots, but just the fact that we own them puts a demand on wild caught parrots. African Greys are one of the most common wild caught parrots in the wild because they are so drawn popular and all of our adorable and sweet YouTube videos spread around the world and make people in other countries, where they AREN'T able to be captive bred (not enough population), put a demand on wild caught ones. We might not be the ones purchasing wild caught parrots but we are definitely creating a demand for them.
I'm on an African Grey "Action Group" on Facebook that updates on the status of wild African Grey conservation and some of the photos they share of smuggled African Greys-- 25 of them in one tiny wire travel cage stuffed in there like sardines, literally-- it's pretty sobering.
I do sometimes, but when I do, I get sick to my stomach...then I go love them some more....
*We* may not (whatever classifies in the "We" department), but Aviculture does. We companion parrot owners love our companion parrots. Sure we can buy from responsible breeders, etc. But we started importing millions and millions of wild caught birds before 1992. We now have breeders. However, what about countries who aren't like us? Who are just getting into Aviculture? We Americans can support captive bred birds, but most countries cannot. So the wild birds will always be ripped from their homes, many/most killed in the process, all in the name of Aviculture. Yes I am guilty and ashamed. I cannot see how people cannot be.No, *WE* don't put a demand on wild caught birds because we don't buy wild caught birds. If we only buy from responsible breeders, we have absolutely zero responsibility for birds taken out of the wild. I'm not creating a demand for anything, I refuse to purchase or own wild caught birds. I don't feel the need to take responsibility for anyone but myself.
Funny, I didn't personally import a single wild caught bird, thus I am not responsible for those who did. I cannot be held responsible for anything I didn't personally do. It doesn't matter to me what happens around the world, I'm not responsible for that either. It's one thing to hate what's going on, but this thread is specifically about feeling guilt. How can one feel guilty over something they personally haven't done?*We* may not (whatever classifies in the "We" department), but Aviculture does. We companion parrot owners love our companion parrots. Sure we can buy from responsible breeders, etc. But we started importing millions and millions of wild caught birds before 1992. We now have breeders. However, what about countries who aren't like us? Who are just getting into Aviculture? We Americans can support captive bred birds, but most countries cannot. So the wild birds will always be ripped from their homes, many/most killed in the process, all in the name of Aviculture. Yes I am guilty and ashamed. I cannot see how people cannot be.
Why should I feel guilty for what another country is or is not doing? Especially when there is absolutely nothing I can do to stop this...nope, once again, I refuse to feel guilty for this.*We* may not (whatever classifies in the "We" department), but Aviculture does. We companion parrot owners love our companion parrots. Sure we can buy from responsible breeders, etc. But we started importing millions and millions of wild caught birds before 1992. We now have breeders. However, what about countries who aren't like us? Who are just getting into Aviculture? We Americans can support captive bred birds, but most countries cannot. So the wild birds will always be ripped from their homes, many/most killed in the process, all in the name of Aviculture. Yes I am guilty and ashamed. I cannot see how people cannot be.
That's still not our fault. The reason we have pet birds, or any pets at all, is because they are awesome. We're still not responsible for what anyone but ourselves do. I have no part whatsoever in what anyone else does, especially in another country. I don't post videos of my birds, I never recommend anything but responsible pet ownership and if people do stupid things, that's not my fault in any way, shape or form.As Coco stated, other countries who do not have captive breeders, see videos of our wonderful birds, and see pictures, and they want that. Whether anyone agrees or not, we inadvertently encourage people of everywhere that pet birds are awesome. We may not physically have anything to do with the imports but we still have an impact. Like commercials and cage companies that show a large bird in a small cage, sure they are only showing, they don't PHYSICALLY have a hand to make people think that is ok, they just do. So I see the same with wild birds, we may physically have nothing to do with them importing, but our fabulous videos really encourages them as they want what we have.
And yet, you have five birds...I don't care if they are captive or wild caught. Either way, WE are taking a wild animal and forcing them to live under the circumstances WE deem fair.
Yes, I feel guilty.
I agree completely...if you feel that guilty about it, then why in the world do you own birds at all...That's still not our fault. The reason we have pet birds, or any pets at all, is because they are awesome. We're still not responsible for what anyone but ourselves do. I have no part whatsoever in what anyone else does, especially in another country. I don't post videos of my birds, I never recommend anything but responsible pet ownership and if people do stupid things, that's not my fault in any way, shape or form.
You know, I'd think someone who felt truly guilty about this would simply stop owning birds. Guilt over something that one refuses to stop doing makes no sense.
That is correct, I have 5 birds. 4 rescues and 1 I bought but she is captive bred . These guys are NOT pets, they are not domesticated, they are wild animals. I do my best but yes, I am guilty. I don't understand why you want to make them 'pets'? You do understand they are not domesticated animals?And yet, you have five birds...
Human beings are capable of contradictory desires and feelings, and of making choices that may not 100% live up to their personal ethics. In the case of 'pet ownership', we often have to make decisions based on the reality of the world, and not on the world that we would find ideal (in my case, that would be no 'ownership' of other living creatures). The reality is that there are captive birds that need homes, whether we personally agree with breeding or the original capture of the birds that supplied the breeding stock.And yet, you have five birds...
Yet you're still doing something for which you claim to feel guilty, yet continue to do it. I'm not being critical of you, I think it's great that you have rescued birds, you deserve a lot of credit for that. However, the reality is, the birds we have in our homes are domesticated. Certainly they haven't been for as long as dogs and cats, but if we let them go into the wild, they wouldn't survive, they simply do not have the instincts or the knowledge to find their own food and avoid danger. Those are things they've turned over to us. We provide for their biological needs, they provide enjoyment for us. It's a reciprocal relationship, just like any dog or cat. Further, we breed for color and temperament, two things that further limit their ability to survive in the wild. Like it or not, they are domesticated.That is correct, I have 5 birds. 4 rescues and 1 I bought but she is captive bred . These guys are NOT pets, they are not domesticated, they are wild animals. I do my best but yes, I am guilty. I don't understand why you want to make them 'pets'? You do understand they are not domesticated animals?
Yet every penny you spend on food, on cages, on toys, on veterinary care, all indirectly supports the industry. These are businesses that would not survive, but for the growing pet bird industry.I have also taken in birds from other private homes. I don't consider that a violation of my ideals, because my money did not go to support the industry.
Providing the captive birds that already exist with safe, stimulating environments where they can live out the rest of their lives is the best we can do, and is not, in my opinion, a contradiction for those of us that believe birds should not be in captivity.