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Do you ever feel guilty about aviculture?

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sodakat

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Seriously, no. Look at the strides that have been made in aviculture. Parrot owners are encouraged to buy the largest cage they can afford. Pellets are manufactured that extend captive parrots' lives by decades. Educated parrot owners use avian vets to keep their birds healthy. Research is closing in on a vaccine for avian borna viruses. Selling unweaned babies to all but experienced hand-feeders is broadly discouraged. Allowing chicks to fledge and keeping parrots flighted is becoming the norm. Experienced breeders and long-time parrot-keepers share their years of experienced online.

I think aviculture is doing well.
 

Cephus

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Nope, I don't feel guilty in the least. I provide an excellent home for all of my animals, birds included. I have nothing to feel bad about, they want for nothing, they are all happy and will have long, pleasant lives.
 

BethySue

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(I got a little long-winded. Sorry!)

Do I feel guilty about me keeping birds? No, I don't. My birds are well cared for and never go hungry. Their health and medical needs are met. They get to spend time with birds like themselves since I have a small flock of three lovebirds. They are safe and very rarely have a reason to feel scared or hunted. They have plenty of enrichment and foraging opportunities. They get to spend time outside, though not as much as I would like. Things aren't perfect for them, but it is what we strive for while knowing perfection could never be met. My three have never known a life outside of being kept indoors most of the time, having humans cater to their every need. They know nothing about what life is like outside of being pets and companions. They don't know what they're missing, and so I don't feel guilty. I would feel guilty if they had been given that freedom and then had it taken away.

Do I feel guilty about the industry as a whole? Kind of. Guilty isn't the right word. I think to be guilty, you are implying that you have to have had some big impact on it in order to make it the way it is and have the control to change it. I have been guilty of buying birds from pet stores and buying from a breeder. Will I do that in the future? I'm not sure. I will probably not buy from a pet store again, but I may be open to getting another baby from a breeder as I don't have a problem with responsible breeders breeding. I am guilty of working in the industry having spent a year working at a pet store, and that is something I will never do again.

The more appropriate word for how I feel about the industry is ashamed, though that word isn't quite right either. I probably feel some anger about it too. Importation makes my blood boil. Taking a wild animal out of its habitat so somebody can have a pet is insanely wrong. It is damaging to the animal, and if it happens enough times, it is damaging to the ecosystem and the wild population. I do believe their are certain species that should not be kept as pets in most cases, though there will always be that phenomenal person who can provide the right environment for those birds, but the number of those people is far fewer than the birds that are like that and in captivity. In addition to the importation issue, I also have a big problem with pet stores and other professionals who give out erroneous information about an animal or product just to make a sale. That incorrect information can often put an animal in danger, physical or health-wise.

So, long story short: I don't feel guilty about having my birds. I do feel a bit ashamed and angry about the industry as a whole.
 

JLcribber

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Ashamed is a much better choice of words.
 

GlassOnion

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We as owners support aviculture and create/sustain the demand for more birds. I'd use the term, guilty. We are supporting the industry.
 

GlassOnion

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If I didn't possess so much of my human selfishness, I wouldn't have birds at all, or only rescue.
 

BethySue

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We as owners support aviculture and create/sustain the demand for more birds. I'd use the term, guilty. We are supporting the industry.
I think you can own birds without supporting the aviculture industry, or at least without supporting the bad parts of it. Be conscientious when you get a bird, and don't get a bird from a place you know gets their birds from a mill or other unpleasant places. Better yet, adopt or rehome a bird. Buy supplies and food from either places that aren't connected in any way to the industry or from places that are as aware of the state of the industry as you are.

Also, on a completely unrelated note, I love your username.
 

GlassOnion

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You do make me feel a bit better about birdkeeping..
And thanks :) How could I resist the Beatles?
 

Zeb

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Oh my, what a big can of worms we have opened. :eek:

Although I can empathize with the feelings of guilt, and have had them myself, I don't feel guilty for my own actions. In a perfect world, sure, everything would be free....but that still wouldn't stop predators from eating prey and just life sucking sometimes in general. The world is not perfect, nor will it ever be....even if humans were not here.

One can argue that all their needs are fulfilled; a bird in the wild would want food, shelter, companionship, and to reproduce. Aviculture CAN do that, but not everyone chooses to.

I often remind myself how dumb we are as a species. Try as I might, I can't stop people from being idiots.

At the end of the day, I know the world won't change magically and I do much more good than harm. Keeping animals, I believe, is human nature. I also don't believe birds are equals. I love and respect them, but I don't put human feelings into non humans. Intelligent, yes, but they are NOT people.

Cars have killed people, but I don't feel guilty for driving. I don't feel guilty for dogs, horses, fish or whatever.....they key is humane treatment. That is where humanity often fails...not just to animals, but also to each other.
 

Yoyo'sMom

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I do feel guilty or ashamed a bit. I think birds are such amazingly smart creatures and I guess that's what pains me. Yes we love them to pieces but look at how many issues that some of them have being in a civilized environment. I honestly couldn't say the same for cats or dogs. I also feel guilty for all the beautiful animals that are suffering on this planet due to our human lack of regard and stupid decisions.
 

Yoyo'sMom

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I often remind myself how dumb we are as a species. Try as I might, I can't stop people from being idiots.

Yes, I can't agree more. I think we were posting at the same time.
 

ashbirdlady

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All but one of my birds are rescues/rehomes. And that only helps out 7 of the hundreds of birds that are being mistreated.
Something needs to be done about all the breeding. Over breeding....but what ? I really don't know. We don't want different species to go extinct but we don't need hundreds of them either.....
Christa
 

Nìmwey

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Oh yes, every single day. That's why I'm doing my best to spread the word and educate every single being I can reach out to, about the sad situation of parrots in captivity. Encouraging adopting rehomes instead of buying babies (and if they buy a baby - not a common species that is already overflowing the market and definitely not a handfed one), for those that actually can take living with parrots. (Very few who are interested in them would be able to care for one for more than a couple of years...)

The last budgies my family had (we've had them since my 'mom' got one in the early seventies) were rehomed to Junsele Djurpark (a Zoo in northern Sweden) in the summer of 2009. They (Hugo and Josefin) were seven and four years old, respectively, and were not very appreciated. I only took care of them for those years because no one else would (they were not mine, legally, I've never owned a budgie).

So they got a much better life there, with a flock. And what's fun is that several years earlier, before Josefin, we had four budgies - Albin+Lukas, and Hugo+Alva. Alva got killed by a cat, and then Hugo became partner to Albin instead, so Lukas was rehomed to my cousins who had a lonely budgie. Their other budgie died several years later and Lukas was alone again. So on the way with Hugo and Josefin to the Zoo, I picked up Lukas too. He and Hugo, who had been buddies since 2002, recognized each other immediately, while Josefin (who had known Hugo for four years but never been that close to him) stayed out of it.

P1030283.jpg

(The blue-yellow-white one in the foreground is Hugo, the white one behind him is Lukas, and the yellowish green one in the right corner is Josefin.)

And my cockatoos of course, are staying with the owner of Skansen-Akvariet (one of the most famous zoos in Sweden, specializing in exotic creatures), Jonas Wahlström. They do not live at the zoo like the budgies do up in Junsele, but at his home, since he has lots of parrots (like Hyacinths and black cockatoos) there.
The reasons for not having my cockatoos anymore is a very long story that I don't feel like bringing up here.

Like I've said in another post, I may be just insanely stupid for getting a macaw (boy did they get horribly mad at me at the swedish parrot forums... talking crap about me behind my back, etc.), or I'm right in the assumption that they are no where near as difficult to keep as a couple of white cockatoos (the toos do after all have a very unique temperament among psittacines).

And one personal term for getting a macaw was that I try free flying. I know how risky it is, but I think this species (or another big, loud, colorful bird, like a B&G) is the ideal for free flight, and perhaps I might even become a professional bird handler in the future, but it's too early to tell yet.
In any case, if I was a bird, I would rather live semi-free for ten-twenty years than live eighty years in a cage (because even a house is a cage). I just hope Cirino feels that way too, since I can't ask him.
 
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Nìmwey

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If I didn't possess so much of my human selfishness, I wouldn't have birds at all, or only rescue.
Indeed - I am guilty by buying two cockatiels and one lovebird from pet shops, one Meyers parrot and one cockatoo from a breeder.
But I have since then taken in two rehomes (both plucked and more or less traumatized), and I try every day to help repair the damage by educating people.
 

Cephus

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We as owners support aviculture and create/sustain the demand for more birds. I'd use the term, guilty. We are supporting the industry.
I don't, every animal I have is either a rescue or captive bred. Nothing I do supports taking birds or any other animal out of the wild. I specifically am not supporting any of that.
 

itzmered

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I felt guilty about having birds in captivity after seeing them flying free in their natural habitat in Costa Rica. Then after thinking about it some more I quit feeling that way because my birds were born in captivity and I realized that they wouldn't even make it in the wild anymore because they were not parent raised in the wild and taught how to fend for themselves. I know that all I can do is try to provide the best for them that I am capable of. They are happy and healthy that is what matters to me :)

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk
 

Nìmwey

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How I feel about parrots in captivity.

YouTube - ‪Fly - Parrot abuse‬‏

Just a little something I put together this morning. (And as I'm writing this, a newly awoken Saga gives me a little fake fart from the corner. So unsensitive.)
 
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Love My Zons

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I am another oddity and do not. The reason I say this, I bought birds that were basically imprinted towards humans and raised. They were not wild caught birds that were forced to adjust to a world of strange humans and living behind bars.

As most of us here do, we have very lucky birds that have all of the essentials they need to survive and be healthy. They have cages large enough to feel comfortable in their safe places with plenty of toys that fulfill their foraging, chewing and natural behavior.

Mine are flighted, so they are not cheated from an amazing thing they are able to do. I wish I could fly like them some days! They also spend their time together being species of alike genus only different in color and or region they come from. They can communicate with someone alike and they pretty much complete each other and are not alone.

I feel guilty about aviculture in the realm of the pet trade. I think it's horrible, most pet stores down to Walmart shouldn't even have fish! The Pet trade is to blame for alot of the birds that end up as rehomes and breeders for the buck are also to blame.

Then there are saviors who rescue, rehab and place. Alteast here at AA there is a vast majority of People who can alteast make a difference with propsective new bird owners as they find this site. :)
 

lotus15

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I don't, every animal I have is either a rescue or captive bred. Nothing I do supports taking birds or any other animal out of the wild. I specifically am not supporting any of that.
Actually I'd guess that MOST of us only have rescue or captive bred parrots, but just the fact that we own them puts a demand on wild caught parrots. African Greys are one of the most common wild caught parrots in the wild because they are so drawn popular and all of our adorable and sweet YouTube videos spread around the world and make people in other countries, where they AREN'T able to be captive bred (not enough population), put a demand on wild caught ones. We might not be the ones purchasing wild caught parrots but we are definitely creating a demand for them.

I'm on an African Grey "Action Group" on Facebook that updates on the status of wild African Grey conservation and some of the photos they share of smuggled African Greys-- 25 of them in one tiny wire travel cage stuffed in there like sardines, literally-- it's pretty sobering.
 

jmfleish

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Not a chance...I wish someone would care for me, clean up after me, feed me wonderful food, pet me, and provide me with an endless supply of toys! My birds have the best possible world they could ever ask for and I don't ever once feel badly for them...EVER!
 
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