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Discipline/punishment. Just bad advice.

Discussion in 'Behavior Byway' started by JLcribber, 11/23/10.

  1. jennifer84020

    jennifer84020 Checking out the neighborhood

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    I have an interesting and unusual situation i am trying to make sense of. Any advice or questions are welcomed.
    About two months ago i adopted a 19 yo male blue and gold macaw named Skipper. He is usually of mellow temperment,
    but a couple weeks ago A neighbor girl who is 13 came to visit and very much wanted him up on her arm but is/was afraid of him.
    She finally decided to pick him up using a stick.
    She sat down and he climbed onto her knee/thigh. She was having her cycle at the time, and he immediately stuck his beak
    into her private area. She was wearing blue jeans at the time. She immediately threw her hands up and said
    GET HIM OFF.ME....GET HIM OFF ! I was quickly able to remove him and the incident was mostly ended right there.
    Upon her leaving for home, however, he screamed and screamed as if he wanted her to return.
    To this day when she visits he tries EVERY trick in the book to get her attention, and screams, and he tries get as close
    to her as he can. (Today he kindve had her cornered so he is obviously getting better)! Yet he shows no signs of wanting
    to hurt her except for a little bit of foot pecking. There seems to be no doubt he is attracted to her. Has anyone had any similar experiences?
    Will this most likely be the way he always responds every time she visits? I seriously doubt she will be ok with giving
    him another try and picking him up. Should i not allow them to be together to save him the grief her visits cause?
    I will add that i am certain she has never done anything even close to abusive to him because I never allow unattended visits.
    All i can think to do is not allow her to visit him, but thats kindve harsh on a young girl and comes across too much like punishment.
    Any suggestions?
     
  2. Greycloud

    Greycloud Joyriding the Neighborhood Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award

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    To be honest, as far as the first introduction went I think the bird was just excited and the reaction of the girl overstimulated him. Some say birds can tell if a women is on menses. I have owned birds for 30 yrs. Male cockatoos at that and never had a problem. Since this is a child I would keep visits to just a between the cage bars type friendship. ;)
     
  3. JLcribber

    JLcribber Joyriding the Neighborhood Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran Shutterbugs' Best Crash Test Dummy

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    I agree with Judy. First impressions are a pretty big thing for a parrot and he got lots of drama when he met her. Very memorable and rewarding. Worth trying again if I was a parrot.

    As far as sticking his beak down into her crotch, that's a pretty common thing for any parrot to do that gets down on your lap. They try to do it to me all the time. I don't have a "cycle", although I do have tools to protect.
     
    Last edited: 4/27/14
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  4. JLcribber

    JLcribber Joyriding the Neighborhood Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran Shutterbugs' Best Crash Test Dummy

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    If you want her to visit with him then this whole thing is going to come down to the girl being courageous confident and ready to do all the learning/work.

    The bird has her number and knows how to push the button. He's not scared of her and it's great fun.
     
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  5. nebraska

    nebraska Meeting neighbors

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    now how would you relact then if a Bird does not stop screeming .. I mean we read a lot of "dont do" how about "how to" cause i dont know how i should react when my caique bites (and I cannot find a reason ) or screams like for ever. How do you work with positiv enforcement in those cases?
     
  6. Monica

    Monica Biking along the boulevard Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    If you can, learn to read your caiques body language before he bites, then try to avoid the bites. Find a way to work with him and learn to respect him, too. Respect should go both ways.


    As far as screaming goes.... you may want to figure out the exact times your caique screams, then do something with him before that time... i.e. exercise, bathing, give him foraging toys or something else. Teach him that when he plays independently, he gets a reward.


    You can try minimizing screaming by rewarding your caique for being quiet any time he's quiet for a few seconds. You can then gradually increase that time. Here's some good articles worth reading.


    Use your words: Conditioning Sam to a new environment | Learning Parrots
    Living With Parrots Cage Free: Does Ignoring Really Work?
    Screaming | Lara Joseph
     
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  7. nebraska

    nebraska Meeting neighbors

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    Cool thank you that was nice Monica and very constructive. I find my bird scream when I am at home and not with them so I just go in the room when they get quiet and that works good. I cannot say I got a big problem with screaming but good ideas I will keep in mind.

    Now I got a problem with body language and I need help with that! I posted I other places too but did not get help yet need to be patient. Mine are : male almost 2 years and female 1 1/2
    The male started biting. I could not tell why. Rubbing on a towel coming to me , sitting on my left hand and biting in the right hand really bad. He did that once a day for a week and I cannot identify is it happy or is it mean maybe someone reads this and can help I would be soooo thankful
     
  8. Monica

    Monica Biking along the boulevard Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    He might be hormonal, so the triggers to biting are higher than normal.


    Caiques, being very active birds, they just might need a way to get rid of their pent up energy! I've actually noticed with Charlie, my mitred conure, that the more exercise he gets, and the more stimulation he gets, the less undesired behaviors there are! But when I'm slack and he doesn't get enough, the undesired behaviors go up!


    Also, is it possible to take your caiques with you around the house on a stand or something?
     
  9. nebraska

    nebraska Meeting neighbors

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    On a stand :laugh: :roflmao: :wacky: Laugh out loud they would not stay there. I do take them around but I have to put them in once in a while they forget to eat.

    Yes you might be right with the exercise. But one day I was playing with both birds and he suddenly bit me. One day he was playing with his mate and came over just to bite, one day he was surfing on his towel came to bite so actually he was busy. And only biting the right hand.
    So I really want to know how does he look he gets those rings in the eyes when he finds something cool exciting he gets rings but when he is mad also ... so where is the difference? i looked in books and internet until now did not find an answer....
     
  10. Monica

    Monica Biking along the boulevard Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    Watching Barbara Heidenreich's DVD Parrot Body Language may be the best way to *really* see the differences in behavior! The way a bird stands, the way they hold their feathers, the way their eyes look.... their entire body can show their behavior! Birds that are giving the warning signals usually have a wide stance, neck feathers raised, body feathers puffed out, eyes pinned and possibly the beak open as well. It can certainly vary bird to bird, though!

    However, if a bird has learned that if you ignore all the warning signals that they'll bite, and end up biting you, then the bird may decide not to warn you and bite anyways.


    I do wonder if he bit out of excitement, or if he bit caused he got mad at you for interfering? I do remember one thing that Barbara Heidenreich said, and that is that excitement can quickly turn into aggression.


    And I get what ya mean about staying on a stand! LOL Ya, my conures would rather be on me than anywhere else! Need to teach them to station on something and remain there!
     
  11. nebraska

    nebraska Meeting neighbors

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    thank you - oh that could be excitement -- i did not interfer him rather did i not give him my full attention - why should i when he surfing i think cool i got 5 min on my own hahah- but ok i will look for that DVD thanks for the information that really helps.
    i am very sensitiv and it could be now that i am too careful and i dont want to do anything wrong to give him wrong information. would be fatal if i understand ---'i am happy ' wrong :confused:
    thanks again that is big help!
     
  12. JAM

    JAM Biking along the boulevard Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Veteran

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    I tend to find lories and caiques have similar trends and with our lorikeets the fine line between excitement and aggression is often blurred turning from one to the other at the drop of a hat.

    Lories need a lot of stimulation but can easily be over stimulated and I have been bitten several times as a result of taking playtime too far. Each time my fault and each time I learn a little more about their behaviour.

    The signs I have picked up from ours are the pinning eyes, wide stance (sometimes swaying or slowly moving from one foot to the other) feathers on head and down the back between the wings on end, neck arched and beak can be slightly opened. Sometimes they have a certain whistle which is a dead giveaway. Other times they are silent.
    For me that tells me I am about to secure a bite if I come close or continue on doing whatever I am doing and it is irritating them.
    At the instance a bite will happen the feathers suddenly flatten then go back on end once executed.

    When they are excited the difference is a faster sway, faster switching of feet or hopping, rapid head bobbing and the feathers on the back are flatter but head feathers still up. However they can switch to aggression literally in a second.

    Might be worthwhile you videoing them as previous videos of ours that have or haven't led up to bites have given us background information on displays and approaches for future. One day I will sort, archive and even upload some.

    I am still learning every day. :)
     
  13. JAM

    JAM Biking along the boulevard Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Veteran

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    In fact just now was a perfect example, Pika gave me all the signs he was excited and as I hadn't seen them all day I was excited too, I started whistling, opened the cage, he was bobbing and whistling back, eyes pinning, feathers up but I failed to see the back feathers go up as I approached and as I leaned in for a kiss which I normally do, his high pitched warning whistle went off but too late, I was too close and bam, he nailed my cheek. My fault, I should have approached him a lot more calm. :)

    Pika 1 JAM 0
     
  14. nebraska

    nebraska Meeting neighbors

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    yes ok i understand - the problem each time i had this was the bird was buisy - like one time he was on his cage surfing on a wet towel - i sat on the sofa looking in my ipad.... he jumped on the sofa... went zz zz zz jumped on my left hand just like when he wanted to say hi i am ready - done with surfing - then his feathers popped on his cheacks... (dont ask me what the other feathers did i do not know) and his eyes kind a got rings .... little more red then usual - i did not move looked and talked to him cause i did not know whats up... so he jumped to my right hand and bit...
    the other time i was also reading and he was playing behind me with his mate... jumped on my left hand... same procedure and bit me in my right hand... ( i really dont know if i was moving it but right now when he comes i hide my right hand... and it worked but i am scared he jumpes in my face ....

    he also attacks my relatives ... (blood relatives) he sees them flys to them just to attack them - just because they are there - strangers not
    my niece was there and she acctually has good contact to animals but he just looks for posibility to bite. i just let him out with avian harness so i can controll and he learned fast ... i does like he would not be interested AT ALL in them but as soon as my brain does not have him present on my hand.. then he jumps on them to bite. he really knows the second i dont have him present in my brain. thanks to the harness nothing happend.

    you know what i mean for me it looks like hitchcock ... i want to attack how do i do it the best ... so it scares me and i am not at ease with the bird i could cuttle once.
    i am looking for those books and videos mention in the mail from Monica... i think i dont understand the bird - but i was looking so much for info and could not find any esspecially in German there is NONE.
     
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  15. Monica

    Monica Biking along the boulevard Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    Search for Good Bird Inc (Barbara Heidenreich), Lara Joseph and Behavior Works (Susan Friedman).

    The first two have blogs worth reading, the last has some great articles!


    Stationing (under Lara Joseph) would also be a good read!
     
  16. nebraska

    nebraska Meeting neighbors

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    :bliss: yes i already bought it and have it on my ipad... thanks for the tip that helps Monica your :cheekkiss:
    what does that mean : Stationing (under Lara Joseph) ...?
     
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  17. Monica

    Monica Biking along the boulevard Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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  18. Sassy12

    Sassy12 Meeting neighbors

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    Sassy gets loud, if you can call it that, only when she wants something. It is usually me she wants. So her behavior is acceptable. Like she might see me cooking and get anxious about it. She just wants me to share. Other types like conures, are rather noisy and don't appear to want anything in particular. They get so noisy, that you try covering up, squirting with water, and nothing shuts them up. But most of the time, birds nèed attention and through negitive attention by screaming, they are still getting your attention. So covering them up or squirting them is not really solving anything. Squirting them, could give them a cold. Plenty of attention is the best solution. My Sassy is content most of the time. We keep her cage near us, let her view us throughout the house, she sees wild birds outdoors through a open window. We treat her like a family member. When I view Sassy and she looks bored, I usually give her a piece of cheese or let her sit on me. She is not a screamer. She is the quietest parrot, that I have ever owned. I leave her uncovered everyday from 9:00 a.m. til midnight. But sometimes she gets loud in playing with toys - maybe every 10 days. But that does last long - 7 minutes of loudness is expected of any parrot. She is truly the quiet type. Positive attention works and changing there cage around the room may help.
     
  19. waterfaller1

    waterfaller1 Ripping up the road Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    This is absolutely unacceptable to me. o_O
     
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  20. JLcribber

    JLcribber Joyriding the Neighborhood Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran Shutterbugs' Best Crash Test Dummy

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    Agreed.


    You talk about how positive attention works. Explain what is positive about this?

     
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