Diet related behavior

[TikiMyn]

What a thread.

@clawnz I think your ‘experiment’ in which you ask people to change/observe the diet was a ruse to come on here and rant about pellets.
You clearly do not know how to conduct experiments — while you have your finger on the google button, try looking up statistical significance, for example.

I for one will not be participating in your data gathering because I already have studied pellets, extrusion processes, and so on— and have published writings on them. Complete with citations, which by the way if you quote over 250 words you have to cite the source, else you could be found guilty of plagiarism. I’d hate to see all of AA shut down over your lack of knowledge.

Anyway, back to pellets. Do you not know that the manufacturers have scientists and conduct experiments themselves, before during and after production?

Pellets were developed as an answer to people’s inability or unwillingness to provide enough variety in the fresh foods they provided, not to mention that parrots in the wild travel many miles to gather what they eat and those foods might not be readily available in the US or wherever they live.


This is partially true about seeds, and untrue about pellets. If one does the research, one finds that pellets are a ‘whole food’. Nutrition should be 100% what the bird needs, as stated on the packaging.



No, as I have done lots of research on pellets already - with research based sources, not forums. I did click your Google Scholar link but those studies all related to fish (sea bass and trout, anyone?) which have very different dietary requirements from birds.

I used the Matthew Vriends book in my own work. On p. 53 there is a fairly good summary of the extrusion process and its benefits. It seems to support the argument for pellets, not the other way around.

Also, unless you examine and mathematically break down
-the vitamin content of every fresh food you use
-the loss of nutrients through the storage/sales process as well as at home after purchase
-the amount of each food your birds actually eats per day

You will not know that you are providing the correct nutrients in the correct doses. This has all been weighed/measured in the pelleting process.

I won’t be coming back to listen to your arguments, as I don’t visit this forum to argue with strangers. Just my 2 cents. I’m glad you are now providing links to your sources, as here on this forum we normally provide links rather than long, out of context quotes. This gives the reader the ability to put the comment in context, as well as judge the scientific value of the information in question.

Whew *applause*! Great post! I didn’t know you published your Own research, that is awesome, well done!

 

[Jas]

Hey,
You don't like pellets that's perfectly fine! Don't buy them, Don't feed them, maybe you should show it to the manufacturer?

I've studied business studies for four years. Businesses aren't allowed to lie about their products, they have to go through rules and regulations regarding their products, there are also many laws to protect consumers.

I've studied the three branches (chemistry, biology and physics) of science for two years I know about experiments and how to conduct them and what is out there. I also know that Google is not the best place to get 'evidence' and you need to conduct an actual scientific experiment before you start bashing companies and scaremongering.

Im now at Uni studying criminology and have a deeper understanding of research. What you say is your opinion so can you please stop forcing your opinion on us? If you want to talk research we can, with scientific research!

But I'm not going to sit here and 'argue' with someone who does not have scientific evidence and have a biased attitude and opinion, half of these posts fall on deaf ears anyway. You don't even take into account what has been said and can you please stop with the scaremongering and hate?

 

[Jas]

Hey,
You don't like pellets that's perfectly fine! Don't buy them, Don't feed them, maybe you should show it to the manufacturer?

I've studied business studies for four years. Businesses aren't allowed to lie about their products, they have to go through rules and regulations regarding their products, there are also many laws to protect consumers.

I've studied the three branches (chemistry, biology and physics) of science for two years I know about experiments and how to conduct them and what is out there. I also know that Google is not the best place to get 'evidence' and you need to conduct an actual scientific experiment before you start bashing companies and scaremongering.

Im now at Uni studying criminology and have a deeper understanding of research. What you say is your opinion so can you please stop forcing your opinion on us? If you want to talk research we can, with scientific research!

But I'm not going to sit here and 'argue' with someone who does not have scientific evidence and have a biased attitude and opinion, half of these posts fall on deaf ears anyway. You don't even take into account what has been said and can you please stop with the scaremongering and hate?

 

[Jas]

Hey,
You don't like pellets that's perfectly fine! Don't buy them, Don't feed them, maybe you should show it to the manufacturer?

I've studied business studies for four years. Businesses aren't allowed to lie about their products, they have to go through rules and regulations regarding their products, there are also many laws to protect consumers.

I've studied the three branches (chemistry, biology and physics) of science for two years I know about experiments and how to conduct them and what is out there. I also know that Google is not the best place to get 'evidence' and you need to conduct an actual scientific experiment before you start bashing companies and scaremongering.

Im now at Uni studying criminology and have a deeper understanding of research. What you say is your opinion so can you please stop forcing your opinion on us? If you want to talk research we can, with scientific research!

But I'm not going to sit here and 'argue' with someone who does not have scientific evidence and have a biased attitude and opinion, half of these posts fall on deaf ears anyway.

 

[TikiMyn]

@Jas I really like your post, and the fact that you posted it three times

 

[Jas]

@TikiMyn the three times was accidental, whoops

 

[Mizzely]

I am curious what you make of @Mizzely Jingo, he started barbering his feathers when his pellets were taken away? I think all birds react differently to their food, just like with humans, and I think Some birds do better with pellets, and Some without them.

I think he has me on ignore

 

[finchly]

I think he has me on ignore

He’ll have us all on ignore then, before this is over!

 

[faislaq]

I think he has me on ignore

I don't have you on ignore. Please do answer for the rest of us? This really is an informative thread once it's "filtered".

Try it! "Filter" the thread & go back and re-read. You can tell there is some contention going on, but you only see the open-minded posts and I swear you'll want to cheer for them!

I've never been able to use that button before because I was worried I might miss something that contributed to the thread, but I went back and checked previous posts & realized that almost all of them had been the same pot-stirring. And with most of the same, dedicated members doing their best to make it an actual discussion instead of what it was; one member pontificating. Bless those of you who can put up with it, but I don't have it in me.

 

[TikiMyn]

I think he has me on ignore

O well, that says something about him!
I was not feeling nearly 100% well yet when I got into this thread, and let him get to my head jeez I do think pellets can be a very good addition and I am so glad Henkie is eating them, Reading all his posts almost Made me sad he did I do think there is something to say for all veggie/sprout/etc, I think birds are good at picking the right veggies and such if they have a big variety and are not picky, but not all birds are going to do that. Fëanor would, Henkie defiantly not. My cockatiel would have starved before eating anything green, the little bugger only ate carrot and Apple but when he saw Some bad human food or heard a bag cracking, he was right at it! Pellets would have been wonderful for him. I am going to research pellets again I started doing Some research a while back, but I have forgotten anything I might have learned and stopped pretty quickly because a test week came up I think. At the moment I have nutri bird, the only one Henkie eats so far. I like that it has clay in it a lot, but the sugar in it is weird. If I can’t find why they put extra sugar in it, I am going to ask them

 

[Jas]

Everything is good in moderation and variety is key!

I think sugar is for the taste, like fruits are more appealing to birdies ( and humans) because of the sweetness.

That's what scaremongering does, don't let it get to your head and unless it's approved by a trusted and known organisation take it with 20 buckets of salt.

 

[finchly]

I've never been able to use that button before because I was worried I might miss something that contributed to the thread,

If you're referring to the ignore button, you can toggle it on and off. So leave it on unless you feel strong enough to deal with the contention, and toggle it off for a moment.

Won't say how I know that.

 

[clawnz]

Sally Blanchard
Admin · 1 hr
A RANT ABOUT THE PARROT PELLET SCAM
- Years ago I spoke at a parrot conference and was excited to hear that there would be a panel on parrot nutrition. When I went it to hear the speakers, it was nothing but a bunch of pellet reps hawking their pellets with no information about actual nutrition at all.
- I got most of my information from reading, sorting through the Internet, talking to nutritionists, dieticians, a university animal nutrition professor and one woman who had studied nutrition and applied the information to parrots. Basic nutrition is basic nutrition - there are certainly some exceptions but I took the time to learn them when it comes to birds and the dogs and cats that I have lived with.
- In college I studied physiology, comparative anatomy and taught and anatomy lab class so they gave me a good idea of the many similarities that many animals have. I learned nothing about nutrition from pellet manufacturers. There are so many harmful and even toxic ingredients in pellets that I wouldn't feed them to the squirrels outside. I won't feed anything with menadione, soy, food coloring and a bunch or chemical nutrients. There is only one clean pellet on the market today that I feed as a part of the diet - TOPS Parrot Food. The rest is vegetables with an emphasis of those with high vitamin A, fruits, whole grains, quinoa and occasional fresh well-cooked chicken white meat. The digestive system of parrots evolved with them eating fresh foods that they foraged for and found in their habitats. Does it make sense to feed them a dry food as their diet.
- Although I am not a veterinarian, working with hundreds (thousands?) of parrots in their homes and talking to an equal number of people at conferences and on the phone, I have a great amount of experience seeing what malnutrition can do to parrots and what a total or near total seed diet and a total or near total parrot pellet diet can do to parrots. I think that pelleted diets are the biggest scam perpetuated on parrot owners since the vitamin enriched total seed diets. And I will never understand why anyone would feed their parrot a food with artificial food coloring knowing its horrible reputation in regards to human children!

 

[Mizzely]

This is what happens when Jingo doesn't get pellets or vitamins and only eats fresh foods, in case you thought I was bluffing.



I don't know WHY this is the case but I know that in his almost 7 years it has occurred twice - once when on a seed only diet and once when on fresh food diet.

It might not be noticeable to many but he is in fact barbering his feathers and has patches where feather destructive behaviors have occurred.

If feeding a fresh only diet would prevent this, I would do it in a heartbeat because this makes me feel like a failure. But the fact that we are already doing that and he STARTED this behavior during that timeframe means that for MY BIRD it is not the right thing.

 

[Jas]

we should just boycott this thread.

No member on here should feel like they are 'abusing' their birds or aren't being good parronts beacuse one person has an unhealthy issue with pellets! This forum isnt for that, it's not a debate anymore it's a thread about bashing pellets ( its becoming toxic) and people shouldn't have to feel like this.

Don't feel guilty or upset just because one person can't take a step back and be more open!

 

[TWR]

I don't have you on ignore. Please do answer for the rest of us? This really is an informative thread once it's "filtered".

Try it! "Filter" the thread & go back and re-read. You can tell there is some contention going on, but you only see the open-minded posts and I swear you'll want to cheer for them!

I've never been able to use that button before because I was worried I might miss something that contributed to the thread, but I went back and checked previous posts & realized that almost all of them had been the same pot-stirring. And with most of the same, dedicated members doing their best to make it an actual discussion instead of what it was; one member pontificating. Bless those of you who can put up with it, but I don't have it in me.

Where is this filter button? I’m using iPhone to browse the forum. Thanks.

 

[Hotpockets]

This is what happens when Jingo doesn't get pellets or vitamins and only eats fresh foods, in case you thought I was bluffing.

View attachment 271278

I don't know WHY this is the case but I know that in his almost 7 years it has occurred twice - once when on a seed only diet and once when on fresh food diet.

It might not be noticeable to many but he is in fact barbering his feathers and has patches where feather destructive behaviors have occurred.

If feeding a fresh only diet would prevent this, I would do it in a heartbeat because this makes me feel like a failure. But the fact that we are already doing that and he STARTED this behavior during that timeframe means that for MY BIRD it is not the right thing.

@Mizzely Can I ask how you knew Jingo was barbering in the photo you posted? It looks so mild I'd almost think it was a molt (not that I'm doubting you.) Did you catch Jingo in the act or notice something else strange about the dropped feathers? I ask because my boy Roy looks like this. We recently switched over to straight pellets and now I'm worried.

 

[finchly]

Where is this filter button? I’m using iPhone to browse the forum. Thanks.

You look over to the left and click the person’s name. a box pops up with Profile Page, Start a Conversation, Follow, Ignore. Click ignore.

The Sally B quote is from a private FB group so you can’t see the date but it starts with ‘years ago’. Well I would assume and. Hope that pellets have improved since then! @clawnz ... which they have. You have gotten on the pellet scare train but I’m not sure it is the best place to be. Please try to have an open mind.

@Mizzely probably some micronutrient we arent providing.

 

[TWR]

You look over to the left and click the person’s name. a box pops up with Profile Page, Start a Conversation, Follow, Ignore. Click ignore.

Thanks .... but sorry, I’m still confused. @faislaq says she doesn’t have him on ignore, she has the thread “filtered”. I know how to use the “ignore” feature, but thought this was something else??? Not sure though.

 

[faislaq]

Thanks .... but sorry, I’m still confused. @faislaq says she doesn’t have him on ignore, she has the thread “filtered”. I know how to use the “ignore” feature, but thought this was something else??? Not sure though.

I was telling @Mizzely that I didn't have her on ignore & asked her to continue. I do have the other member on Ignore and it removed their content. I'm not afraid of missing anything that might contribute to the thread after reviewing past posts & seeing more combative threads about pellets. I realized there weren't going to be any fair or new postings from them and that this never was a discussion for them as much as a platform to browbeat the rest of us. So I clicked Ignore and this thread became useful again.