Diet related behavior

[clawnz]

Hi all .
I would like to gather details.
I am becoming more convinced that diet does have a bearing on behavior. Proven a few times, now.

So the question is, I would like to know the details of, are, if you have a bird that is plucking, do you feed any pellets. if so percentage of diet would also help.

For other people that have removed pellets from the diet, what changes have you noted in behavior.

Ok I know there are many other reasons we have pluckers and birds that barber.
Clipped birds can chew the cut stubs, due to irritation, this could lead on to a bird becoming a plucker. At that time it can become habitual.

I am asking on a number of platforms.
I already have 5pages of comments, all indicating an improvement in behavior once fabricate foods are removed from the diet.
And a number detailing total removal of all supplements and moving to a real fresh foods diet.
Including sprouting. In fact in most cases the improvements are put down to sprouting.

Remember to check out my sprouting thread here. 'Sprouting Easy or complicated.

 

[TikiMyn]

Interesting! Would you like to share all responses when you have finished your little investigation? Neither of my birds pluck or Barber.
Species: Peach faced lovebird
Diet: I try to get them to eat as much veggies as possible, they get a chop every day to which I add Some fresh veggies and pellets to such up the excess water. They don’t eat a lot of the pellets, the reason I give them pellets is because they don’t eat enough veggies. I think when I move out and can make a more fresh chop this Will massivly improve though. Also in the winter they get very little D3, and I try to give them that through pellets.
They also eat seeds and sprouted seeds+grains+beans.
Age: Henkie: about 6 years
Fëanor: about 1,5 years


A little question, do you have any suggestions on how to let them forage for their veggies? They already forage through the plates to pick a certain piece, and I have Some other ideas, but extra ideas are always Nice!

 

[clawnz]

I will share if i can sort how to post, complete.
I will have to blank all the names, as a privacy thing.

I do not worked much with Lovebirds.
Try Whole foods Hanging foods on fruit sticks, or 'S' hooks.
What may work with Lovies, is cardboard tube with treats or food in them and fold the ends over.
Egg cartons, same deal.
Natural tree tops are always liked, even fresh grass in seed.
I find my Tiels like the tops of the Sweetcorn plants, not just the cobs.
I remember having a handi capped Budgie, who liked to sit on top of a cob to eat the kernels.
So whole cob, not strip and feed.

With my bigger guys I like to just crack nuts and let them finish the job.
You can also buy items that you can load up and let them spend time trying to get the food out.

You do have to play around with ideas, and see what you can get them to accept.
And everyone of them are individuals.
But yes i do feel we over prep their foods, for one reason or another.

 

[clawnz]

We are also talking about plucking, barbering.
Not only improvements in condition.
And in a good number of cases people have seen a decrease in that behavior after fortified foods are removed.

Please do not get me wrong Plucking and Barbering is not always fixed or improved by just changing diets.
There are any number of other reasons that could be involved.
Just that in a good number, people reference seeing better results in less destruction and an improvement in feather condition.

I for one can vouch for feather condition in any number of birds I have or am dealing with here.
Reference Marshall and his little story.
That should be in the Eclectus section.

 

[TikiMyn]

I will share if i can sort how to post, complete.
I will have to blank all the names, as a privacy thing.

I do not worked much with Lovebirds.
Try Whole foods Hanging foods on fruit sticks, or 'S' hooks.
What may work with Lovies, is cardboard tube with treats or food in them and fold the ends over.
Egg cartons, same deal.
Natural tree tops are always liked, even fresh grass in seed.
I find my Tiels like the tops of the Sweetcorn plants, not just the cobs.
I remember having a handi capped Budgie, who liked to sit on top of a cob to eat the kernels.
So whole cob, not strip and feed.

With my bigger guys I like to just crack nuts and let them finish the job.
You can also buy items that you can load up and let them spend time trying to get the food out.

You do have to play around with ideas, and see what you can get them to accept.
And everyone of them are individuals.
But yes i do feel we over prep their foods, for one reason or another.

I tried the cardboard, eggcarton and tree shavings, they love that! I could try adding veggies to the branches. I have hung leafy greens a lot especially in the summer but they mostly nibble at it. They are master foragers so Maybe I could even wrap Some carrot pieces in layers of paper, they like carrot and Will eat that quickly. They love grass seeds too! I make sure to not offer too much because they eat all of it, it’s Candy for them haha! They love sweetcorn too, I dry the leaves to use in toys mostly. Thank you for the other ideas! Right now they forage up to 6 hours on REALLY good days, but sometimes only 4. But they are tough with their fresh foods, I’ll keep trying though!
They don’t seem to like big pieces, only pieces of at least a square cm, and don’t like strips either. I have Some skewers, I guess I Will keep trying with those too!
I feel the same about human foods, I am vegan and last summer I almost never ate industrialised food, never felt so good! I want that for my fids too if I can give it to them. Untill then I do offer pellets, but they eat very little of it, sometimes nothing, other days a few seed sized pellets. I don’t know if it does them any good, but I haven’t noticed any bad things neither. In the summer they do love all the fresh flowers and berries I bring them, plus they go out more, I Don’t think they Will eat any pellets in addition to that.

 

[LunaLovebird]

Mine are fed pellets, in addition to vegetables, and neither pluck or show any other behavioural issues.

 

[clawnz]

Mine are fed pellets, in addition to vegetables, and neither pluck or show any other behavioural issues.

Could I ask you to take this challaenge?

For 8weeks feed fresh foods and sprouts only.
Drop all fabricated foods including any supplements.
Then tell us what you see.
The possible things you may see are! better feather condition.
And possibly a change in personality.

The chances are if you are feeding a pellet based diet (Not Tops) you will notice changes within just a few weeks, But I allow 8.

 

[clawnz]

Here is just one comment that has been made.

Kim ******
One of the many reasons we don't feed pellets. We've had necropsies done on past birds that have died because of pellets. And behavior changes are always associated with diet and training. We've had lorys, parakeets, cockatiels and macaws all have extreme behavior changes due to eliminating pellets from their previous diet. Pluckers are very prone to continue plucking due to pellets. I liken pellets to feeding McDonald's. It can't be helped but have health and behavior issues.

 

[LunaLovebird]

Could I ask you to take this challaenge?

For 8weeks feed fresh foods and sprouts only.
Drop all fabricated foods including any supplements.
Then tell us what you see.
The possible things you may see are! better feather condition.
And possibly a change in personality.

The chances are if you are feeding a pellet based diet (Not Tops) you will notice changes within just a few weeks, But I allow 8.

Absolutely not. For starters, my birds won’t eat all their fresh food, and I don’t wish to see them malnourished. They’re fussy. Secondly, I am not in a position where I can leave sprouts to go mouldy in their cage all day. Finally, they both just came out of a moult, so feather quality would not change. My vet has commented every year for the past few visits about how good their feather quality is, so I don’t see what benefit it would give anyway.

I know you mean well, but your changes simply aren’t feasible for many bird owners, myself included. Moreover, I don’t see that my birds need to change. They are both good natured, and have a good outwards appearance. They eat their pellets, and they eat a good portion of their vegetables, but they wont eat enough variety that I could trust they would get everything they need nutritionally.

 

[Mizzely]

Could I ask you to take this challaenge?

For 8weeks feed fresh foods and sprouts only.
Drop all fabricated foods including any supplements.
Then tell us what you see.
The possible things you may see are! better feather condition.
And possibly a change in personality.

The chances are if you are feeding a pellet based diet (Not Tops) you will notice changes within just a few weeks, But I allow 8.

I actually have been doing this with my quaker for a few weeks already because he stopped eating pellets. He loves his fresh food so I figured I would try it his way to see how things go, and so I could stop wasting pellets that he literally has been just throwing on the floor for the last couple of months.

His behavior is worse (more screaming, more dive-bombing) and he is now plucking and barbering some feathers off his stomach. The only other time he has plucked in his life is when he was at my mother in laws for a few months and was only fed seed, no pellets.


So I am going back to pellets.

 

[alshgs]

I have 3 parrots. They all eat Harrison’s high potency fine with fruits and veggies daily. I do have a green cheek that plucks, but it’s hormonal.

 

[clawnz]

Every bird i have tried this with HAS improved out of sight.
But hey that is only around a 100 birds last year alone, so I may be wrong.
My AV does not think so and I trust him.

So very sad to hear read the bad comments above.
Pellets are just a easy way to make the owners feel happy.
Every comment I have had in over the last 4days says there are way too many birds suffering due to people not willing to feed real foods.

 

[alshgs]

My parrots are not suffering. They get fresh foods, just not 24/7. I work full time, married with two kids, and I have a house full of rescued animals. There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding pellets if everything is fine. My birds are healthy, their feathers are great, and they are very good natured.

It would not work with my parrots. They love their pellets. It’s not that I’m not willing to do fresh food only, it’s that my time is limited. And they need fresh several times a day to make sure they are getting adequate nutrition.

Are these people feeding the correct greens to make sure the calcium and other factors are right? Are they getting enough beta carotene?

In my situation, it’s not feasible. But please don’t say that birds are suffering because owners aren’t willing to feed fresh. That’s an assumption that should not be made.

 

[Mizzely]

All I know is that when my Quaker STOPPED eating pellets, two separate occasions a year apart, he started plucking. First time on seed only. This time with fresh foods and a little bit of (non vitamin coated) seed. Take that as you will.

 

[Bokkapooh]

I have cockatoos and a macaw. They need their pellets. It's how I know they eat and get the nutrients they need. Like Children, they can be picky. However I probably could go pellet-free if I chose to feed them hot cooked foods twice a day. They'd be in high heaven. Then! I honestly had thought about it.

 

[clawnz]

Ok I'll buy into this.
What is in a pellet that you cannot feed yourself????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Pellets are 60 +plus percent ground up corn. Which has very little nutritional value.
I will not go into all the other Dangerous stuff in them.
They are stale way before you even get them.
It is rubbish you cannot feed a decent diet without using manufactured, so called foods.
It is sad and disgusting that people are happy to feed these.
Overload is so very real and people just don't get it!

fresh foods are FAR MORE nutritious than stale ground up mush.
No I do not cook for my birds.
I have never seen a bird at a BBQ or at a Pellet tree.
If I can condition up Eclectus on a real foods diet, including sprouts.
Without any supplements or fabricated foods, why is it so hard for others.
Maybe they should find another pet if they are not capable of feeding a decent diet.

 

[clawnz]

My parrots are not suffering. They get fresh foods, just not 24/7. I work full time, married with two kids, and I have a house full of rescued animals. There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding pellets if everything is fine. My birds are healthy, their feathers are great, and they are very good natured.

It would not work with my parrots. They love their pellets. It’s not that I’m not willing to do fresh food only, it’s that my time is limited. And they need fresh several times a day to make sure they are getting adequate nutrition.

Are these people feeding the correct greens to make sure the calcium and other factors are right? Are they getting enough beta carotene?

In my situation, it’s not feasible. But please don’t say that birds are suffering because owners aren’t willing to feed fresh. That’s an assumption that should not be made.

It is not an assumption.
Yes Toxic over load is very real. You asume because some quake told you pellets are ok or a necessity.
They totally are not.
Again i ask you what is in these MAGIC ground up mush? That makes you think you cannot do without them.
You can make your own at home and know exactly what is in them and know they are far fresher than a package that has been in the shop for weeks. you take home and keep for another few months.
Come on Really?

 

[clawnz]

I am going to enjoy sharing some of these statements on a few other pages.
If it was not for the birds welfare, we would all have a good laugh.

 

[Bokkapooh]

It's nice to know you believe strongly in what you believe in. But let's not get nasty.

 

[clawnz]

Are these people feeding the correct greens to make sure the calcium and other factors are right? Are they getting enough beta carotene?
In my situation, it’s not feasible. But please don’t say that birds are suffering because owners aren’t willing to feed fresh. That’s an assumption that should not be made.

You missed B12. Thsi should be a good one to discuss, as most pellet people believe the lies told, by the manufactures of pellets, this is very important and birds need supplementation.
Which like so many other claims they make is total rubbish.
But hey you buy into that.
First you need to show me why you thing it is so scientific.
How do you think birds manage in the wild?

Lets face it, they actually do very well, or they would not exist.