Attycakes
Meeting neighbors
- Joined
- 9/19/17
- Messages
- 32
- Real Name
- Jessica
Hi everyone! First off I want to say THANK YOU so much for this amazing community. It has been a plethora of information and I am so happy to have found and learned so many amazing insights from caring, passionate, and experienced owners of our lovely feathered friend.
So before I begin with my predicament, I'd like to provide a little backstory (and also apologize in advance of the absolute monster in length that this post will be):
About 10 years ago, my family bought and brought home two very beautiful and lovely Senegal parrots - Atty and Joey. They are hatchlings and a bonded female/male pair that have never been separated (except for the week after buying Atty, my brother realizing how much he was in love with her, and us going back to get her brother since we couldn't think of separating them after all). At this time, I was 16, and as a family we were unprepared and admittedly uneducated about how to care for such amazing creatures and the amount of time and dedication goes into their well being. For the first four years, 2008-2012, I was their primary care taker, providing them with plenty of out of cage time, enrichment, playtime, healthy diets, you name it. But when college time came around and I could not take them with me, they fell into the hands of my parents, namely my mom, as they were the best environment for them.
Unfortunately, life became crazy and with also having two dogs, two cats, and my grandmother to take care of, they sadly became "forgotten" so to speak and stopped receiving the care they deserved. I in no way blame my mom, she had her plate full and was doing the best that she could at the time while my dad worked full time. It was just that other things needed immediate attention and they were pushed to the back burner. Their regular life became a mostly pelleted diet - Harrison's - with sometimes almonds/walnuts/dried cranberries/raisins topping it (I cringe as I write this). Their out of cage time became once or twice a week infront of a window with a few toys they didn't bother with. Two separate cages became one as lugging two large cages out to the patio for a cleaning became too difficult for my mom on her own, so naturally some territorial/cage aggression began from the male as he attempted to protect his nest.
My mom always had an aversion with Atty, the female, since she bit her quite hard when we first got them after she was spooked. This set in my mom's eyes that she must hate her and she was the "enemy" in Atty's eyes and never tried to repair the relationship. The shopkeeper telling us about how Senegal's often are "one person birds" was concrete in her mind. As a result, the only way that she ever would pick Atty up was either by use of a perch or my throw pillow off my bed. Joey is naturally fearful of new things, this would set him off to screech and fly, usually falling off his perch. My mom would try to take them out to clean the cage, which usually resulted in pushing the end of the pillow lightly to both of them to force them to step up, walking them to their perch, and leaving them alone for an hour or two. This was the same way they were taken out to get out of cage time to play.
It evolved to the point that Joey would fearfully bite at the pillow every time, clamping down hard in what I believe to be fear-induced aggression but also for his balance (our vet stated he has a webbed foot on his right side so his balance is less stable). This has resulted in almost always a bite, even when stepping up onto fingers as a learned behavior. This happening more often every time she would try to take them out resulted in less out of cage time which lead to a very unfortunate life style that was not only unhealthy and unfulfilling, but based on many negative interactions.
In part I blame my mom for a lot of the struggles that we face today, but I also understand that none of it came from being malicious or anger, she was always trying her best, trying to get them some play time, trying to clean and wash their cage so they could stay healthy. It has just been extremely difficult being on her own to do these things with no help or support (my dad only sees them as expensive vet bills and wanted to give them away to a rescue which I IMMEDIATELY shut down). However, it is not surprising that these living conditions have caused significant damage.
---
So that wild ride brings us to today. I have moved back home and my plan has always been to take the parrots with me into my new home so that I can dedicate my time fully to them and give them the life that they deserved and had before I left for college. Understandably, six years in the environment has caused some rifts in the relationships that I once had with them. Atty, miraculously, is relatively unchanged by this. She was a little weary with me for a day, but she now acts just as I remember her. She is adventurous, spirited, and high energy and always my investigator. She wants to be with me 24/7 and I am happy to provide.
Being housed together has created some territorial issues with Joey, namely when he is in "his" corner of the cage or in a space where he feels it is "his". I understand this, I am protective of my space too and I know this is a natural instinct. When he is in "his" spot, I am not trying to change this. He has all the right to be left alone when he is in his space. I also never force them to step up, it is always their choice.
I have been working diligently with both Atty and Joey for the last three weeks now. Lots of research, many almonds and pine nuts, and about $500 dropped at the specialty bird store, I can say with pride that their living space has become extremely enriching full of wooden toys they love to chew, many foraging activities, 5-6 hour of out of cage time with me in the room majority of this time (usually reading, listening to music, playing a record for them, cleaning up the many paper and wooden scraps on the floor from their fun...) They are being provided a healthy veggie/fruit meal in the mornings, usually 4-5 veggies and a fruit chopped up, sprinkled with sprouts on top. I have started limited their daylight hours since they have been more hormonal (dawn to dusk, after the sky goes black, it's lights out and bedtime).
With Joey, it was extremely hard to even approach the cage without his entire demeanor changing. Admittedly, I earned myself a few HARD bites to the finger trying to ask him to step up before I realized what he had gone through and why he would behave this way. For 3 weeks I have been working with him closely and I can now hand feed him, rub his beak, *sometimes* scritch him on the back of the head, and I have now moved to target training him around his cage and play area which he LOVES. I think this has helped to build our trust even more.
My eventual plan when we finally settle into our home is to get a second cage for Joey, as his cage aggression flairs up especially when Atty is in the cage with him. This make is extremely difficult as Atty is eager to come out and be with me the moment my fingers start unlatching the door. There have been times when he has rushed across the perch inside to get to me or to try to block her as in a "No! Don't go!" or "Dont you dare come in here!". I never reach into the cage when they are inside, I have a perch attached to the door that opens that I wait for Atty to get onto before I ask her to step up, which she does so eagerly. I am hoping that a second cage space for him to call his "own" will be an effective remedy for this.
One of my biggest battles that I am having right now with him is aggression that he is placing towards me when I am on my bed and I am not sure how to react to this. A week and a half ago, I was laying on the bed when he hopped/flew from the side door of the cage over to the bed. I had been completely still the entire time and I thought "Oh, hello. Are you coming to see me?" Well.... the little bugger crouched down and CHARGED like a bat out of hell at me with his mouth wide open. "WTF!" was my immediate reaction and I rolled off the other side to avoid him, earning a nasty bruise on my leg from hitting the bed in my haste. I realized then in that moment, that was probably EXACTLY what he wanted to happen and I had just reinforced that behavior.
Sure enough, two days ago, Atty was on my bed with me, playing peekaboo around my laptop. Joey was saying her name repeatedly and saying "Step up!" which I think he says to get her to come back (or maybe I am just anthropomorphizing) but after ignoring his pleas, he flew over to the bed (which I had now pushed against the opposite wall to further it from the cage) and I froze up. I started talking to him nicely, he was staring at me the whole time, never taking his eye off me. I could tell what he was thinking but was unsure of how to react. I knew he wanted me off the bed, but I didn't want to reward him for trying to chase me away either. I started to sit up very slowly to try not to spook him. My back was against the wall and that was when he charged again. I didn't try to duck or run away, I quickly put my hand out to the side of him and gently "shooed" him away. It stopped him in his tracks, he stared at me, and turned around and flew back to his cage and had himself a little huff.
Now, in a few weeks, the scene is going to completely change when we move to our own place. I will not be sharing a bedroom with our birds, but they will be in a room next to mine that I plan on dedicating just to them that will also serve as a living/reading space. I am putting them in the forefront of my mind so that the room is completely bird-safe for them. They are both fully flighted but still need practice to strengthen their muscles. My fiancé has a cat so creating a safe space for them is my priority, but they will not be limited to this room. They will also get to spend time in the bedroom and by the porch when the cat is safely put away into a different space (he is very calm and laid back, but I still want to be extra careful).
So I guess now that my novel is complete (mostly) there are some concerns and questions that I still am trying to find answers to that maybe some of you can help with answering.
1. In the case of Joey flying to me to act aggressively, what is the best course of action here? I feel like fleeing from the behavior reinforced it, but I also feel like "shooing" him away was a negative hit to our relationship we have been building.
2. How else can I further build trust between Joey and I? He is very hand shy, which I am trying to address with target training. My plan eventually is to target him slowly closer to my hand for treats, reaching over to get them, etc until he can comfortably step onto it. Is there anything else that I can do that I am not currently using to help him feel more comfortable?
3. Is a stricter diet/daylight exposure the best approach to curbing hormonal behavior? I know that past trauma is a leading motivator to the way that he is acting, but both of them are also displaying mating behaviors that I have had to break up many times.
Any advice would be much appreciated and I thank you all so much in advance. I realize that I have written a mile long essay for your perusal, I just felt that too much detail couldn't be enough to help. I hope that is anyone else is struggling with the same issues, that this thread can be of some guidance as well.
Thank you!
So before I begin with my predicament, I'd like to provide a little backstory (and also apologize in advance of the absolute monster in length that this post will be):
About 10 years ago, my family bought and brought home two very beautiful and lovely Senegal parrots - Atty and Joey. They are hatchlings and a bonded female/male pair that have never been separated (except for the week after buying Atty, my brother realizing how much he was in love with her, and us going back to get her brother since we couldn't think of separating them after all). At this time, I was 16, and as a family we were unprepared and admittedly uneducated about how to care for such amazing creatures and the amount of time and dedication goes into their well being. For the first four years, 2008-2012, I was their primary care taker, providing them with plenty of out of cage time, enrichment, playtime, healthy diets, you name it. But when college time came around and I could not take them with me, they fell into the hands of my parents, namely my mom, as they were the best environment for them.
Unfortunately, life became crazy and with also having two dogs, two cats, and my grandmother to take care of, they sadly became "forgotten" so to speak and stopped receiving the care they deserved. I in no way blame my mom, she had her plate full and was doing the best that she could at the time while my dad worked full time. It was just that other things needed immediate attention and they were pushed to the back burner. Their regular life became a mostly pelleted diet - Harrison's - with sometimes almonds/walnuts/dried cranberries/raisins topping it (I cringe as I write this). Their out of cage time became once or twice a week infront of a window with a few toys they didn't bother with. Two separate cages became one as lugging two large cages out to the patio for a cleaning became too difficult for my mom on her own, so naturally some territorial/cage aggression began from the male as he attempted to protect his nest.
My mom always had an aversion with Atty, the female, since she bit her quite hard when we first got them after she was spooked. This set in my mom's eyes that she must hate her and she was the "enemy" in Atty's eyes and never tried to repair the relationship. The shopkeeper telling us about how Senegal's often are "one person birds" was concrete in her mind. As a result, the only way that she ever would pick Atty up was either by use of a perch or my throw pillow off my bed. Joey is naturally fearful of new things, this would set him off to screech and fly, usually falling off his perch. My mom would try to take them out to clean the cage, which usually resulted in pushing the end of the pillow lightly to both of them to force them to step up, walking them to their perch, and leaving them alone for an hour or two. This was the same way they were taken out to get out of cage time to play.
It evolved to the point that Joey would fearfully bite at the pillow every time, clamping down hard in what I believe to be fear-induced aggression but also for his balance (our vet stated he has a webbed foot on his right side so his balance is less stable). This has resulted in almost always a bite, even when stepping up onto fingers as a learned behavior. This happening more often every time she would try to take them out resulted in less out of cage time which lead to a very unfortunate life style that was not only unhealthy and unfulfilling, but based on many negative interactions.
In part I blame my mom for a lot of the struggles that we face today, but I also understand that none of it came from being malicious or anger, she was always trying her best, trying to get them some play time, trying to clean and wash their cage so they could stay healthy. It has just been extremely difficult being on her own to do these things with no help or support (my dad only sees them as expensive vet bills and wanted to give them away to a rescue which I IMMEDIATELY shut down). However, it is not surprising that these living conditions have caused significant damage.
---
So that wild ride brings us to today. I have moved back home and my plan has always been to take the parrots with me into my new home so that I can dedicate my time fully to them and give them the life that they deserved and had before I left for college. Understandably, six years in the environment has caused some rifts in the relationships that I once had with them. Atty, miraculously, is relatively unchanged by this. She was a little weary with me for a day, but she now acts just as I remember her. She is adventurous, spirited, and high energy and always my investigator. She wants to be with me 24/7 and I am happy to provide.
Being housed together has created some territorial issues with Joey, namely when he is in "his" corner of the cage or in a space where he feels it is "his". I understand this, I am protective of my space too and I know this is a natural instinct. When he is in "his" spot, I am not trying to change this. He has all the right to be left alone when he is in his space. I also never force them to step up, it is always their choice.
I have been working diligently with both Atty and Joey for the last three weeks now. Lots of research, many almonds and pine nuts, and about $500 dropped at the specialty bird store, I can say with pride that their living space has become extremely enriching full of wooden toys they love to chew, many foraging activities, 5-6 hour of out of cage time with me in the room majority of this time (usually reading, listening to music, playing a record for them, cleaning up the many paper and wooden scraps on the floor from their fun...) They are being provided a healthy veggie/fruit meal in the mornings, usually 4-5 veggies and a fruit chopped up, sprinkled with sprouts on top. I have started limited their daylight hours since they have been more hormonal (dawn to dusk, after the sky goes black, it's lights out and bedtime).
With Joey, it was extremely hard to even approach the cage without his entire demeanor changing. Admittedly, I earned myself a few HARD bites to the finger trying to ask him to step up before I realized what he had gone through and why he would behave this way. For 3 weeks I have been working with him closely and I can now hand feed him, rub his beak, *sometimes* scritch him on the back of the head, and I have now moved to target training him around his cage and play area which he LOVES. I think this has helped to build our trust even more.
My eventual plan when we finally settle into our home is to get a second cage for Joey, as his cage aggression flairs up especially when Atty is in the cage with him. This make is extremely difficult as Atty is eager to come out and be with me the moment my fingers start unlatching the door. There have been times when he has rushed across the perch inside to get to me or to try to block her as in a "No! Don't go!" or "Dont you dare come in here!". I never reach into the cage when they are inside, I have a perch attached to the door that opens that I wait for Atty to get onto before I ask her to step up, which she does so eagerly. I am hoping that a second cage space for him to call his "own" will be an effective remedy for this.
One of my biggest battles that I am having right now with him is aggression that he is placing towards me when I am on my bed and I am not sure how to react to this. A week and a half ago, I was laying on the bed when he hopped/flew from the side door of the cage over to the bed. I had been completely still the entire time and I thought "Oh, hello. Are you coming to see me?" Well.... the little bugger crouched down and CHARGED like a bat out of hell at me with his mouth wide open. "WTF!" was my immediate reaction and I rolled off the other side to avoid him, earning a nasty bruise on my leg from hitting the bed in my haste. I realized then in that moment, that was probably EXACTLY what he wanted to happen and I had just reinforced that behavior.
Sure enough, two days ago, Atty was on my bed with me, playing peekaboo around my laptop. Joey was saying her name repeatedly and saying "Step up!" which I think he says to get her to come back (or maybe I am just anthropomorphizing) but after ignoring his pleas, he flew over to the bed (which I had now pushed against the opposite wall to further it from the cage) and I froze up. I started talking to him nicely, he was staring at me the whole time, never taking his eye off me. I could tell what he was thinking but was unsure of how to react. I knew he wanted me off the bed, but I didn't want to reward him for trying to chase me away either. I started to sit up very slowly to try not to spook him. My back was against the wall and that was when he charged again. I didn't try to duck or run away, I quickly put my hand out to the side of him and gently "shooed" him away. It stopped him in his tracks, he stared at me, and turned around and flew back to his cage and had himself a little huff.
Now, in a few weeks, the scene is going to completely change when we move to our own place. I will not be sharing a bedroom with our birds, but they will be in a room next to mine that I plan on dedicating just to them that will also serve as a living/reading space. I am putting them in the forefront of my mind so that the room is completely bird-safe for them. They are both fully flighted but still need practice to strengthen their muscles. My fiancé has a cat so creating a safe space for them is my priority, but they will not be limited to this room. They will also get to spend time in the bedroom and by the porch when the cat is safely put away into a different space (he is very calm and laid back, but I still want to be extra careful).
So I guess now that my novel is complete (mostly) there are some concerns and questions that I still am trying to find answers to that maybe some of you can help with answering.
1. In the case of Joey flying to me to act aggressively, what is the best course of action here? I feel like fleeing from the behavior reinforced it, but I also feel like "shooing" him away was a negative hit to our relationship we have been building.
2. How else can I further build trust between Joey and I? He is very hand shy, which I am trying to address with target training. My plan eventually is to target him slowly closer to my hand for treats, reaching over to get them, etc until he can comfortably step onto it. Is there anything else that I can do that I am not currently using to help him feel more comfortable?
3. Is a stricter diet/daylight exposure the best approach to curbing hormonal behavior? I know that past trauma is a leading motivator to the way that he is acting, but both of them are also displaying mating behaviors that I have had to break up many times.
Any advice would be much appreciated and I thank you all so much in advance. I realize that I have written a mile long essay for your perusal, I just felt that too much detail couldn't be enough to help. I hope that is anyone else is struggling with the same issues, that this thread can be of some guidance as well.
Thank you!
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