Corey update- specific morning biting problem

[Cris Waller]

I posted a while back about Corey, my rescued bare-eyed cockatoo, and you were all very helpful. He and my husband are now getting along well!

We have one very specific biting problem, and I'm at wit's end with it, as I just can't figure out the function of the behavior to overcome it. It will take a little while to describe.

Corey spends the night in a sleep cage in a quiet corner of our living room. He goes to bed with no problems and likes his routine of go in the cage, have a snack, get a drink, get covered, and talk back and forth for a while.

In the morning, I need to move him to his day cage. I uncover him, open the cage door, give him a couple minutes to come out while I get dressed, them move him to his day cage. That's when we have our issue. He almost always bites my hand or arm- hard enough to draw blood- before going to his day cage.

He is not resisting going to his day cage- he wants to be there, it's where breakfast and all his foraging and chew toys are. After the bite, he goes willingly.

Originally, before I could handle him (and thus before the biting issue surfaced,) I transferred him from night cage to day cage on his rolling stand. That was awkward as it doesn't roll well over carpet or through doorways.

I then started moving him between cages with a perch. That worked for about a week, then he started the biting by charging down the stick (no matter how I held it- he's very agile) and biting. One good bite and he was done and transferred without further issues. He did not charge/bite at other times, just in the morning.

I started wearing an oven mitt, which "worked" (he bit the mitt) for a few days, then he charged up the mitt to bite my arm. And he bites even harder when he's frustrated at not getting the immediate bite.

I added a plastic guard to the perch, which worked for a couple of days until he learned to climb over it.

Added a bigger guard- he grabbed it with his beak, swung under the perch, grabbed me with his feet, and bit.

Went back to the "birdie bus" (his rolling perch)- he jumped off it and bit.

At this point, I'm stymied. I've tried leaving him along longer to see if that makes a difference- it doesn't. I've tried moving him immediately when he comes out of the cage- same result. We don't have this issue at other times of day (for example, he never bites going to his night cage.)

Other than this morning bitefest, he is usually handleable, and his bites are predictable and avoidable. But I need some help with this morning biting routine. For now, until I get some better ideas, he's sleeping in his day cage.

Any ideas what may be triggering this and how to overcome it?

 

[JLcribber]

I added a plastic guard to the perch, which worked for a couple of days until he learned to climb over it.

Added a bigger guard- he grabbed it with his beak, swung under the perch, grabbed me with his feet, and bit.

I've told people this many times before. That perch with a guard is the right idea but not the right tool to get the job done. As you said he circumvents that guard pretty easily. This is the weapon of choice. This is a T stick. It gives you control because it keeps your flesh out of target range. You can manipulate the bird much better. Spin him around to keep him facing away from you (and a little off balance) if necessary. He can't reach down far enough to get your hand. If he tries you manipulate him again. You can even go so far as grabbing (or grab at) his tail with your free hand to quickly change his focus or get real control over him.

You need to improve your stick handling skills. Top is 2 1/2" round by 16 inches. Handle is 24 inches long.

Part of the reason he acts like that is because he is getting some kind of reward for it?

 

[Donna turner]

Have you tried putting him back in his nite cage as soon as he bites ? He probably won't want to go there so his bite won't get a reward (his day cage with food and other good stuff)

 

[JLcribber]

This biting thing is exactly the same as how Tika behaves except it doesn't have to be any particular time. He "knows" that if I let him on my arm that I am in a vulnerable position and he's got a "mean" enough streak to take advantage of it whenever I'm stupid enough to do it. He has a meat hook and does mortal damage. I can handle him and touch him like any other bird. He is not allowed on my arm.

It's a self reinforcing behaviour. To change any behaviour you have to change the antecedent. He can't bite an arm he doesn't have access to.

If he wants to bite that stick it's fine. He still gets that mental release except no consequences. No reinforcement. The behaviour will fade.

 

[nu2birds]

John........did you make that yourself? Can you purchase those? That looks like a great idea.

 

[JLcribber]

John........did you make that yourself? Can you purchase those? That looks like a great idea.

I make my own because I've never seen them sold. I have seen a few tiny ones that might be OK for a cockatiel but you don't need one for a bird that small. This is a big bird tool.

If you sandpaper the top it's also very effective at grooming those big bird nails. It's not like a perch where they just sit. When they are on the stick they are moving and balancing. This means "gripping" it with those nails and moving. They don't spend any extended time on it so it doesn't do anything to harm the feet. Takes those points right off.

I'm seriously considering making and selling them.

 

[nu2birds]

I think that would be a great idea.........making them. I'll bet a lot of people would be interested in buying them rather than having to make one, although they look like they would be fairly uncomplicated to make.

 

[CrazyBirdChick]

I'm seriously considering making and selling them.

You definitely should! I'm sure alot of people would buy them.

 

[Cris Waller]

I've told people this many times before. That perch with a guard is the right idea but not the right tool to get the job done. As you said he circumvents that guard pretty easily. This is the weapon of choice. This is a T stick. It gives you control because it keeps your flesh out of target range. You can manipulate the bird much better. Spin him around to keep him facing away from you (and a little off balance) if necessary. He can't reach down far enough to get your hand. If he tries you manipulate him again. You can even go so far as grabbing (or grab at) his tail with your free hand to quickly change his focus or get real control over him.

You need to improve your stick handling skills.

My big fear with a T-perch is that he'll jump off it onto me and then bite (and, as I mentioned, he bites a lot harder when he's frustrated by trying to get at me.) I am not the most agile or coordinated person in the world. Grabbing his tail would be suicidal

It's a self reinforcing behaviour. To change any behaviour you have to change the antecedent. He can't bite an arm he doesn't have access to.

If he wants to bite that stick it's fine. He still gets that mental release except no consequences. No reinforcement. The behaviour will fade.

Yeah, working out the antecedent here is exactly what I am trying to do. I'm also of the mind it's self-reinforcing behavior, although I don't know what's triggering it. I'll have to work on the T-perch idea, as at least short-term, as you mention, allowing him on my arm is not feasible.

 

[Cris Waller]

Have you tried putting him back in his nite cage as soon as he bites ? He probably won't want to go there so his bite won't get a reward (his day cage with food and other good stuff)

No. At the point he's biting, he is already on me, so getting him back into his night cage would involve a lot of potentially very non-reinforcing handling, plus a lot of time and attention. I've been working hard to build a trust relationship with him, and I don't think this would be productive or effective. If it were as easy as just setting him down, I'd consider it.

 

[JLcribber]

My big fear with a T-perch is that he'll jump off it onto me and then bite (and, as I mentioned, he bites a lot harder when he's frustrated by trying to get at me.) I am not the most agile or coordinated person in the world. Grabbing his tail would be suicidal

You are already using a stick. Just not the right stick. Having that vertical handle makes all the difference. It really gives you more control. Your free hand is also very useful as either a distraction. When I say grab his tail it can be as little as flicking his tail with your finger. The point is if he turns towards you and you flick his tail he has no choice but to pay attention to that and it's behind him. I think of it as keeping them somewhat off balance so I control the focus.

Once you "try" that stick and see how it works you will understand what I'm saying.

 

[Donna turner]

You saiid if it were as easy as just setting him down maybeyou should try that. That would not give him his rewards and shouldn't break his trust. If you can get him off without a fuss and just walk away for a few minutes, then go get him and try again it would have to be done every time he bit you to wrk. It didn't take but three times of saying don't bite and putting her in her cage for a few min. For cheeky to get the message. I understand though if you have to have a fight to set him down and he's shy it wouldn't be so good. I did have to grab cheeky by her body to get her back in her cage but we already had trust so she was just mad, not traumatized .

 

[Cris Waller]

You saiid if it were as easy as just setting him down maybeyou should try that. That would not give him his rewards and shouldn't break his trust. If you can get him off without a fuss and just walk away for a few minutes, then go get him and try again it would have to be done every time he bit you to wrk. It didn't take but three times of saying don't bite and putting her in her cage for a few min .

Yeah, it's not that easy. I have to peel him off me, and he bites when I do that. There's no way I could physically put him in his cage without major bodily injury. Setting him on the ground is problematic because we have a dog and cats, plus, then he'll go walkabout and I have to retrieve him from wherever he is- I can't just walk away and leave him.