Urgent Caique with Fainting or Seizure - With Video - No Vet Dx

[socrjul]

***UPDATE*** Spoke with previous vet.

Basically, there is a bit of wait and see to this. He suggested getting tested for Bornavirus, although it would be an odd presentation since he doesn't have any other apparent symptoms, it's worth looking into. More so, this can be done as a potential rule-out and even if it does come back positive, there are many parrots that are carriers and may be unaffected.

It seems like the yeast infection, heavy metal poisoning, air toxicity or minor infections can be ruled out. If it is cardiac, there doesn't seem to be much to do because the EKG needs to be done during the event and many times you can hear issue on exam (no murmur). I do like the suggestion of blood pressure and/or blood sugar and am going to ask about that as well. Not sure if that is part of the exam they do in the back. Also going to ask the type of cardiac panel that was done. A few people have suggested it could just be fright - which is odd to me because its twice in 2 years, but I'm open to considering anything.

If they are indeed seizures, it's more likely they are from something from a systemic disease and might get worse/closer together.

Or... my bird is just being a weirdo for attention - that's an option right?

So, now just waiting to hear from my primary vet to see if we can do some additional tests.

Tocino and I appreciate everyone's thoughts and feedback ... always can learn from others and maybe someone else has the same issue

 

[WendyN]

Tocino is not being weird. I watched the video again. I do not think it was just fright, though possible that a medical event was triggered by a fright.
I am glad you are pursuing this with more tests.
Saying a prayer for Tocino.

 

[Tiel Feathers]

I hope Tocino is okay! To me it looks like the fright was triggered by something medical happening first, as demonstrated by his loss of balance or partial use of his limbs. It seems like once this episode passed, he got frightened. I hope you can get to the bottom of this!

 

[Crazy4parrots]

***UPDATE*** Spoke with previous vet.

Basically, there is a bit of wait and see to this. He suggested getting tested for Bornavirus, although it would be an odd presentation since he doesn't have any other apparent symptoms, it's worth looking into. More so, this can be done as a potential rule-out and even if it does come back positive, there are many parrots that are carriers and may be unaffected.

It seems like the yeast infection, heavy metal poisoning, air toxicity or minor infections can be ruled out. If it is cardiac, there doesn't seem to be much to do because the EKG needs to be done during the event and many times you can hear issue on exam (no murmur). I do like the suggestion of blood pressure and/or blood sugar and am going to ask about that as well. Not sure if that is part of the exam they do in the back. Also going to ask the type of cardiac panel that was done. A few people have suggested it could just be fright - which is odd to me because its twice in 2 years, but I'm open to considering anything.

If they are indeed seizures, it's more likely they are from something from a systemic disease and might get worse/closer together.

Or... my bird is just being a weirdo for attention - that's an option right?

So, now just waiting to hear from my primary vet to see if we can do some additional tests.

Tocino and I appreciate everyone's thoughts and feedback ... always can learn from others and maybe someone else has the same issue

Could be manipulation too... Trust me they can use it to attract your attention! Kiwi got me several times and then laughed! :0 He used to scream like if he was in lots of pain while i was away then when i heard him and run to him he would loud and clear say HAHAHAHA! and his face of satisfaction was hilarious but also mean!

 

[gibsongrrrl]

did you have the blood tests for zinc and lead done? If not, I would. Those can cause those symptoms.

 

[rockybird]

I believe it may be seizures. There can be an aura prior to seizing in humans. He may know it's coming on and climbs to the bottom of the cage. It's possible that he has had these all his life and they were never noticed. There are a multitude of causes of seizures. In humans, brain tumors and congenital malformations of the cortex or hippocampus may cause them. Maybe he has a mild form of cortical dysplasia or hippocampal sclerosis. But I would want a thorough workup to rule out other causes, such as infection, cardiac abnormalities, low glucose, metal poisonoing, etc.. Unfortunately, medical work ups are limited in parrots. If the workup is negative and he seems otherwise healthy, I might ask the vet for a trial of anti seizure medication.

 

[Monica]

I third the Vetri-DMG. You can buy it over the counter or from any online store. It's a clear liquid.


Did the vet get any x-rays?

 

[socrjul]

UPDATE

Fall 2/18 11:30 | Nest

Just happened again tonight - go another video. He falls of the perch this time (yes, time to change cages). Seems to respond to me. I can't stay focused enough to take a good video. But I held him to the camera and you can see his left leg is just dangling. Vet appointment wed. Entire episode was a minute, and he regained all function. Again no twitching, no wing weakness, just his leg and grip. Heart is breaking for him.

 

[JLcribber]

Your bird is sick. That last clip confirms it for me.

It may not be seizures (although very possible as mentioned many times). This also has the look of a bum leg for whatever reason. Nerve damage. Injury. Genetic.

For example if he puts weight on the leg and pinches a nerve the leg will collapse under him.

 

[socrjul]

Yes.

The two times I saw it happen his left leg hung there. It was sort of OK to stand on but he has no grip. This time I was looking at his eyes, testing for weakness etc. His right eye was a little closed/sleepy, breathing normal, wings fine, leg leg a little week, but right leg just hanging - not tense, or twitches, just limp. Lasted about a minute with 100% recovery. Playing normally, hopping, etc.

I am wondering if from rough play it's a pinched nerve? He did squeal/protest when I went to pick him up which is not normal. He seems to be alert and listening during it to - he vocalizes and looks at me.

Thank you to everyone... I'll keep updating, and hopefully rd 2 at the vet helps me find a way to help him.

 

[iamwhoiam]

For now, lower the perches and put some padding on the bottom of the cage. Layers of non-pilling fleece or toweling that does not unravel or paper towels. Hope that all will be well with him. Remember to show the video to the vet.

 

[iamwhoiam]

How is your bird doing? Any updates regarding vet check?

 

[socrjul]

UPDATE

I had another vet visit last night. Since the last video I posted he has been happy and healthy with no other issues, so that is the good news. The vet still can't identify any direct cause, even after seeing the video. There are some additional blood tests we can do (bornovirus, etc) but she feels he is still too healthy to warrant any testing. Right now we are taking the direction that this might be nerve pain/weakness, which could either be from injury or from a growth or swelling of an internal organ. Since there is no evidence of a mass, we started by doing a week of meds for inflammation (metacam) and neuro pain (gabapentin) to see if that helps at all. I've also started him on the vetri-DMG as well.

We also talked about modifying the perches in the cage so that he can have a better grip on the bars wince he appears to have reached/missed his bowl. So at this time it's a wait and see and if it does happen again, getting a better video of him and testing for weakness/numbness on the legs. My rental dog leaves this weekend, so the bird will be out and about more. Also, I am going on vacation and was going to cancel, but now it might be a good thing - I can board him at the vet for 4 days where they will have observation available. Next step, if this continues, will be to do an x-ray and that requires sedation.

So the parrot, as much as he dislikes the vet, enjoyed the car ride and helped me pick out a new pair of shoes while he sat on the shopping cart. Feel bad for the little guy - but not sure he even knows anything is wrong. Best part is he seems to like this medicine, so no fighting!

 

[Monica]

It's a shame they have to sedate him to get x-rays. If I recall right, I've had x-rays on two birds and neither one had to be sedated. Well, they probably should have, but the vets were able to get them done without sedation.


Hope the meds and DMG help!

 

[iamwhoiam]

Good that he is doing well. Vetri-DMG is great stuff so hoping that will be beneficial.

 

[socrjul]

Update time...

It's been over a month and Tocino is as happy as can be. Thought we were past everything since I hadn't noticed an episode in a long time - almost a month! I was really hoping it was just a pulled muscles or nerve pain, but I woke up to a weird noise and it seemed to have happened again.

Sharing the video if anyone is interested. This whole thing is strange. He must know something is happening because he is trying to get himself to ground level. This time after I picked him up he didn't seem to still have weakness like the other times. I'm still going to hold off on additional work ups until I feel like this is happening a bit more frequently. Since he seems happy and healthy and I notice no other changes (and options are limited) I'm just going to go with it.

I take the vets recommendations to heart - but this isn't just clumsiness. Maybe he has vertigo - who knows... I'm just grateful this isn't progressing, but I do wish it would go away. So, link below.

https://video.nest.com/clip/2f051168b79942038e7fde97abe3b7e1.mp4

 

[Donna turner]

I know I'm not a bird so this isn't exactly relevant but for a year and a half I've been having episodes that almost seem like a Mimi stroke that goes away in 30 to 60 minutes or so. They always happen about the same two hour period and I can find nothing different I do at that time. I've been to a neurologist and had every kind of test with no explanation. Otherwise I'm healthy and fit. I would take all the tests to see if you find you can find it, but if you don't he may be just fine like me. Just a little quirky. I do hope he gets over it though. Don't want him to have to live on the floor.

 

[socrjul]

UPDATE: Good Videos of Full Episode

Last night I was hanging with the bird watching tv for about an hour when he started the weird noises - I knew an episode was coming. So finally good videos. Video 1 and 2 show progression - Video 3 is where you can see the full weakness and what it looks like. And yes, I am pitching his foot - pretty hard - as a neuro test for the vet to see. The entire thing lasted 3 minutes and right after he was pooping, eating, back to normal.

Video 1:

Video 2:

Video 3:

 

[Milo]

I really don't understand why the vet hasn't taken x-rays yet. In my opinion birds should always be sedated or anesthetized for x-rays due to the stress and the risk of breaking a wing during positioning. Sedation for birds is really very safe (of course there's always a risk but it's minimal) and it could tell them if there is some sort of cardiac issue, and it would certainly show if there metal in his system (although with the duration I feel like that's unlikely). Even though the episodes are spaced out this is happening enough that your bird should have a thorough workup. Bloodwork (cbc/chem) and
x-rays at the very least. It's clearly distressing for your bird to go through these episodes

Did you talk with your vet about the DMG? Over the counter meds can sometimes conflict with prescribed medications.

 

[socrjul]

Hi Milo - Agree with everything you mentioned. I do think it's time we do an xray. If it was just a muscle pull or nerve injury it should be resolved. If anything it will give me peace of mind. I'm also thinking I should look into Aspergillus as well - but I don't see him in any other form of distress. My heart break for the little guy, he clearly knows something is going on because he tries to get himself in a low position, I'm just grateful he keeps bouncing back - I would do anything to prevent this from being permanent.

Waiting to hear from the vet.