Borax powder, safe or not for fids?

[Gen120]

I have a few spiders in my bedroom, (killed a few yesterday, was cleaning my bedroom and they were behind my nightstand). I wanted to know if Borax powder is safe for birds? I remember last year we used it for the fleas, and it killed them and killed the spiders too.

Kiwi's cage is in my bedroom on my nightstand and will be for a few months until I get a bigger cage for him and until his quarentine is over. Is it safe to use Borax powder with him in the room?

Thanks, Victoria

 

[GG.]

I would take him out of the room when you put it out and crack a window but it should be fine

 

[Gen120]

Ok, what if I just put a little bit on the carpet? Would I still have to take him out of my bedroom?

 

[crzybrdldy]

Borax is a form of bleach I wouldn't use it around my birds nor would I use Boric acid.

 

[GG.]

Ok, what if I just put a little bit on the carpet? Would I still have to take him out of my bedroom?

only while you were in the act of putting it on the carpet - use a carpet rake or your fingers to work it gently into the nap of the carpet and you should be fine

 

[GG.]

Borax is a form of bleach I wouldn't use it around my birds nor would I use Boric acid.

I am confused - are you saying it is similar to chlorine bleach (ie Clorox products)?

I hope it is not, I use it for many different things and always thought it was safe

(according to How Does Borax Clean? Borax is a naturally occurring compound and it's bleaching abilities are comparable to peroxide)

 

[Gen120]

so my question is, should I use it with Kiwi in the room or move him out?

 

[Big Blues]

I have read that sprinkling a small amount with sugar on non accessible carpet areas is not harmful. Here is an ecological study report you might be interested in reading.

4.1.2.2. Birds– Limited information is available on the acute and chronic effects of borax and other boron-containing salts in avian species. In standard test species, acute single and acute dietary exposure studies have been conducted on borax and boric acid (Fink et al. 1982a, Reinart
and Fletcher 1977, U.S. EPA 1993b); results are summarized in Appendix 2. Based on the LD50
of >2510 mg borax/kg (equivalent to >284 mg B/kg) in bobwhite quail, exposure to a single oral
dose of borax is considered to be practically non-toxic to avian species (Fink et al. 1982a). A similar low level of toxicity was also observed following 5-day dietary exposures of bobwhite
quail to borax, with an LC50 value >5000 ppm dietary borax (>567 ppm B) (Reinhart and
Fletcher 1977). In these two studies, no clinical signs of toxicity were observed. Similarly, 5-
day dietary exposures of bobwhite quail and mallard ducks to boric acid yielded LC50 values
>5000 ppm boric acid (equivalent to 874 ppm B), indicating that boric acid is also practically
non-toxic to avian species (U.S. EPA 1993b). Since LD50 and LC50 values obtained in these
studies were greater than the highest dose tested, it is difficult to draw conclusions regarding the
toxicity of borax relative to boric acid. However, based on the limited results available, birds appear to exhibit similar sensitivity to borax and boric acid in acute exposures.

http://www.fs.fed.us/foresthealth/pesticide/pdfs/022406_borax.pdf

 

[atvchick95]

Im fairly certain Sarjo has used it in her Bird room , it was posted on the other forum I think so i can't even search for it But Hopefully she'll pop in and confirm if she did or not

 

[Gen120]

Ok, Thank you!

 

[saroj12]

Hi Kelli and Victoria,
I did buy boric acid powder but did not feel comfortable using it dry as a powder my birds walk on the floor sometimes. At night when the birds were caged I would set out paperplates of sugar + boric acid solution to get the ants. Before the birds came out in the morning i would throw away the paper plates. So I got a container of diatomaceous earth instead which the birds should not breathe but is otherwise non toxic. It supposedly kills bugs by dehydrating them. My latest try is using the sticky paper bug traps (they roll up into a small hut so the birds can't get stuck on them which is VERY DANGEROUS as i know first hand
hope this helps

 

[Gen120]

So, I can use Diatomaceous earth instead and it will be ok for Kiwi?

 

[atvchick95]

at this point, it might just be safer, and less stressful (trying to find what is safe) to get some of those Electronic bug things, they plug into a wall NO FUMES, a sound emits from them we humans (and dogs or at least the one i had didnt bother the dog) to get creepy crawlies, including mice to leave

something like this

Amazon.com: The Original Pest Offense POBD-I-01 Electronic Pest Repeller: Home & Garden

mine looked different - same concept and we got it at walmart, but i'm sure they've changed this was like 10 yrs ago When my parents used them

 

[GG.]

I have read that sprinkling a small amount with sugar on non accessible carpet areas is not harmful. Here is an ecological study report you might be interested in reading.

4.1.2.2. Birds– Limited information is available on the acute and chronic effects of borax and other boron-containing salts in avian species. In standard test species, acute single and acute dietary exposure studies have been conducted on borax and boric acid (Fink et al. 1982a, Reinart
and Fletcher 1977, U.S. EPA 1993b); results are summarized in Appendix 2. Based on the LD50
of >2510 mg borax/kg (equivalent to >284 mg B/kg) in bobwhite quail, exposure to a single oral
dose of borax is considered to be practically non-toxic to avian species (Fink et al. 1982a). A similar low level of toxicity was also observed following 5-day dietary exposures of bobwhite
quail to borax, with an LC50 value >5000 ppm dietary borax (>567 ppm B) (Reinhart and
Fletcher 1977). In these two studies, no clinical signs of toxicity were observed. Similarly, 5-
day dietary exposures of bobwhite quail and mallard ducks to boric acid yielded LC50 values
>5000 ppm boric acid (equivalent to 874 ppm B), indicating that boric acid is also practically
non-toxic to avian species (U.S. EPA 1993b). Since LD50 and LC50 values obtained in these
studies were greater than the highest dose tested, it is difficult to draw conclusions regarding the
toxicity of borax relative to boric acid. However, based on the limited results available, birds appear to exhibit similar sensitivity to borax and boric acid in acute exposures.

http://www.fs.fed.us/foresthealth/pesticide/pdfs/022406_borax.pdf

thank you for this

 

[Gen120]

at this point, it might just be safer, and less stressful (trying to find what is safe) to get some of those Electronic bug things, they plug into a wall NO FUMES, a sound emits from them we humans (and dogs or at least the one i had didnt bother the dog) to get creepy crawlies, including mice to leave

something like this

Amazon.com: The Original Pest Offense POBD-I-01 Electronic Pest Repeller: Home & Garden

mine looked different - same concept and we got it at walmart, but i'm sure they've changed this was like 10 yrs ago When my parents used them

I would use these but we have indoor pet rabbits, and the sound hurts their ears too, so now what should I use? Could I just get some of those sticky traps for spiders and put them under my bed, and my dresser, where the fids can't get to them?

 

[Bunkybird]

Last year we had a small flea problem and I used Borax under my couches and it was fine.....I think WHILE sprinkling it about you should take your bird out to be safe.....IMO ~~~btw, it does seem to work great for fleas and spiders.

 

[Bunkybird]

Hmmmmm interesting about those sound emitting thingys....I always thought they were bad to have with birds? Am I wrong? When my parents 'birdsat' for me I had them unplug all of em....

 

[Pookie100]

I sprinkled borax powder on floors and furniture to get rid of fleas. I vacuumed everything, then left the vacuum cleaner outside overnight. The next morning I opened the bag and out jumped 2 fleas, virtually unscathed from being packed in tight with borax for 8 hours. Borax doesn't kill fleas.

 

[Ziggymon]

I sprinkled borax powder on floors and furniture to get rid of fleas. I vacuumed everything, then left the vacuum cleaner outside overnight. The next morning I opened the bag and out jumped 2 fleas, virtually unscathed from being packed in tight with borax for 8 hours. Borax doesn't kill fleas.

Yes. IME, frequent, thorough vacuuming is the best control for fleas and the like. I suspect that the thorough vacuuming, rather than the borax, is what really does the trick. Just be sure to empty the vacuum immediately, and do it outdoors.

 

[Flit]

Hmmmmm interesting about those sound emitting thingys....I always thought they were bad to have with birds? Am I wrong? When my parents 'birdsat' for me I had them unplug all of em....

Unless birds are sensitive to ultrasonic sounds, I don't know that they would be affected. The mere presence of a new object might make them uncomfortable, though.

As for the effectiveness of ultrasonic devices, here is a a Kansas State University study on them. You be the judge.