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Beak & Feather

iamwhoiam

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Sorry about the PBFD. I really hope that the tests come back negative.
 

Mockinbirdiva

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I’m waiting for confirmation before I say anything to the breeder. Public disclosure at this point isn’t an option. If I name them and the tests come back negative, then I’ve damaged someone’s reputation for no reason. That’s not something I am willing to do and as a breeder myself in turn it will damage my own reputation. That doesn’t help anyone. I prefer to speak to them privately to resolve the matter and hopefully get reassurance that positive steps are being taken to eradicate the infection from their flock.

Unfortunately this breeder doesn’t band their chicks. Due to the sheer size of the operation I’m not sure it’s even possible. I keep my own records with unique identifiers for chicks and adults. I was planning on handing next year. If this year is a complete bust then I’ll have to reevaluate where I stand. Maybe this is a hobby but not a good business for me.

I did speak to a local pet shop owner who also purchased birds from the same breeder. It's the right thing to do. He's the one I asked to take a look at the conure chick I have with the odd beak. That bird is one of two that tested positive. I understand that one of the chicks he got is not doing well, so we're in this boat together. What he will do about it, I'm not sure, but I'm going to check in with him this weekend. He's been in the business a long time, and knows far more people than I do. He's also got a bit more fire when it comes to dealing with other breeders. If either of us can get results, my bet is on him.
I still think you need to contact this breeder and let him know... as I hope other people who have purchased and discovered their birds they've purchased from them have this disease will do so. Why wait for a second confirmation? They need to stop selling now until they know their birds are clear. They also need to do disease testing on their entire operation.. which, is a very big expense if they are as large as you say. I would also send him photos of the baby with the odd beak as one that tested positive. Did you share that photo in an earlier post on another thread? I thought you did but can't remember now. If this breeder has this large of an operation he should have decent staff to keep up with cleanliness, feeding and keeping track of his birds. I understand some don't band. ( I did when I raised) It identifies where the birds originate from. Photograph and document your birds you purchased from him.
 

finchly

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Is there some kind of licensure breeders have that you could report them to? Or some avian watchgaurd group?
Mmmm depends on where you live. Here in FL we have FL Fish & Wildlife that oversees your license. They show up at bird shows to check. I think if there’s a legal issue they bring in the local law enforcement.

Years ago, I knew a lady that went to bird fairs to sell birds.
OMG I knew her evil twin sister, who did the same thing with puppies! :rant: She’d go pick up a litter from somewhere, I didn’t know where, and advertise/sell them on whatever the equivalent of CL was back then. So I had a litter of Corgis, and she asked to borrow my crate. I thought nothing of it and. Said sure. I asked her to clean it and leave it outside the dog run. She got some cockers and mentioned how runny their poop was. She didn’t clean the (gross) crate and set it inside the kennel area. My puppy got parvo - it cost over $400.... and of course she’d sold the puppies on to unsuspecting buyers.
 

BrianB

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There is a bird flipper here locally that I would almost wish B&F upon just to get her to stop.

As for the breeder - I’m not sure how you would get an operation that large tested for avian diseases. That’s not my problem though. I will speak to him in either case. Even if the tests turns out to be a false positive it could indicate some incidental exposure somewhere and he needs to be aware of it.
 

Mockinbirdiva

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There is a bird flipper here locally that I would almost wish B&F upon just to get her to stop.

As for the breeder - I’m not sure how you would get an operation that large tested for avian diseases. That’s not my problem though. I will speak to him in either case. Even if the tests turns out to be a false positive it could indicate some incidental exposure somewhere and he needs to be aware of it.
Does he require you to have a vet check within 48 hours of purchase as a health guarantee should anything be wrong with the birds you purchase from him? If he doesn't and time passes he'll may blame any illness on you though exposure to your other birds. I would think by now he must have some idea there is a big problem in his flock.
 

Mockinbirdiva

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Mmmm depends on where you live. Here in FL we have FL Fish & Wildlife that oversees your license. They show up at bird shows to check. I think if there’s a legal issue they bring in the local law enforcement.


OMG I knew her evil twin sister, who did the same thing with puppies! :rant: She’d go pick up a litter from somewhere, I didn’t know where, and advertise/sell them on whatever the equivalent of CL was back then. So I had a litter of Corgis, and she asked to borrow my crate. I thought nothing of it and. Said sure. I asked her to clean it and leave it outside the dog run. She got some cockers and mentioned how runny their poop was. She didn’t clean the (gross) crate and set it inside the kennel area. My puppy got parvo - it cost over $400.... and of course she’d sold the puppies on to unsuspecting buyers.
That's disgusting. She knew that crate was filthy. I'm sorry that happened to you.
 

BrianB

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Does he require you to have a vet check within 48 hours of purchase as a health guarantee should anything be wrong with the birds you purchase from him? If he doesn't and time passes he'll may blame any illness on you though exposure to your other birds. I would think by now he must have some idea there is a big problem in his flock.
He doesn’t. The more I’ve looked at the operation the more I see that it’s just a money maker. I believe there is a passion for birds but at a certain scale something has to give, ie, banding, health checks, etc. while I don’t believe I’ll get reimbursed for my loss and testing costs, I’m not without resources and the prime one is simply doing business with someone else.
 

Teri Ray

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He doesn’t. The more I’ve looked at the operation the more I see that it’s just a money maker. I believe there is a passion for birds but at a certain scale something has to give, ie, banding, health checks, etc. while I don’t believe I’ll get reimbursed for my loss and testing costs, I’m not without resources and the prime one is simply doing business with someone else.
if they are positive what options are there but to put these poor babes down. I would imagine ethically you can't send them out as pets / breeders and keeping them poses quite a risk to the rest of your flock. This breaks my heart to think about. I pray the results are a false positive. :sadhug2:
 

BrianB

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if they are positive what options are there but to put these poor babes down. I would imagine ethically you can't send them out as pets / breeders and keeping them poses quite a risk to the rest of your flock. This breaks my heart to think about. I pray the results are a false positive. :sadhug2:
If the second test is indeed positive, the birds will be put down. The few times I've had to do it really upsets me. The reality is that stopping the spread of the disease is more important.
 

Mockinbirdiva

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He doesn’t. The more I’ve looked at the operation the more I see that it’s just a money maker. I believe there is a passion for birds but at a certain scale something has to give, ie, banding, health checks, etc. while I don’t believe I’ll get reimbursed for my loss and testing costs, I’m not without resources and the prime one is simply doing business with someone else.
Does he allow you in to see his aviary? I know many won't if they have a clean/health flock to avoid people bringing in diseases, or, they don't want you to see the poor conditions of aviary itself. How many different species does he raise? Any high end birds? When there are multiple species of birds being raised then yes, I do believe it's all about making money. On a small scale of raising there isn't a lot of money to be made but perhaps enough to sustain the flock you have. If he wants to maintain his business he'll have to go through disease testing, quarantine and stop selling until his flock is clear of disease and likely culling the birds who have contagious diseases. If he doesn't, he won't be in business for long once the word spreads. You and the pet store aren't his only customers, someone will take action before long.
 

BrianB

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The second round of samples are ready to go, in addition to PBFD and DNA test on the other chicks that may have been exposed. Hopefully I have results back early next week. Until then, they all stay isolated from the others. I have cockatiel chick I need to pull from the nest, but I'm hesitant since they are in the safest place possible right now. It may be best leave them and sell them as breeders instead of pets.
 

Shelli

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I have dealt with PBFD. Please do not be hasty in destroying birds. There are so many things to consider. I will post more info when I get home.
 

webchirp

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Oh no baby cheekie birds....breaks my heart. I do know of one person who had a bird test positive and then retest later negative. Everyone suggested putting the bird to sleep but he is okay today. But yes, displaying signs of illness :-( I wonder if @bubblelady could take one or two in if they aren't showing signs of illness?
 

Shelli

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We purchased an little eclectus boy that had PBFD. It was a nightmare and I am so sorry you are going through this. We had a healthy adult African grey at the time. So PBFD will infect older birds, however, a healthy adult bird will fight of the disease. So the healthy adult bird may test positive-but a month or two later will test negative as their body has eradicated the disease by that time. The only time a healthy adult bird will succumb to PBFD is if they have an underlying medical issue.

Baby birds almost always die to the disease, and those that do not, become carriers. In my case-we returned the baby bird to the breeder and then it was battle of a year or more to get my refund. I won't even touch on the heartbreak of looking into those beautiful eyes and knowing he was dying of a disease I couldn't do anything about. I would still love an eclectus but have had too many heartbreaks with larger birds to ever go for it again. I don't look down on people who have those birds put down-I completely understand why-but I know that there are people out there who are willing to care for them as long as they can live. Some birds with PBFD do live long lives-but I don't know how to feel about this since they can still spread the disease.

The disease does spread easily-and my grey was infected but tested negative later on. The main concern I have for you is that the disease lives for up to 24 months in an area. I know there are a couple of cleaners that can get rid of it but the only thing I remember using is bleach water-and my husband and I scrubbed our little house from top to bottom when it happened. And then the breeder wanted to replace the baby? What? How can you replace a PBFD bird, even if the new baby is healthy, chances are high it still may contract the disease from my house-even after we scrubbed. The virus is exceptionally small and difficult to get rid of.

Anyway, this was the knowledge 4-5 years ago when we dealt with the disease. I was facing one of my worst fears and my entire outlook on bird keeping changed so much when it happened. I wish you the best in whatever route you decide to take in your situation and again I am so sorry this is happening. PBFD just makes me angry, we just need to test. Please please, always test new birds. This doesn't have to happen to anyone.
 

BrianB

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I had a MRSA infection years ago that made me paranoid about germs anyway. Each group of birds has their own feeding syringe. I was going to get a box of disposable ones, but the amount of waste plastic wouldn't be worth it. They all get washed with hot water and soap after each feeding. Same with the feeding dishes and anything else I have to wash. I keep alcohol swabs close by and disinfect anything like nail clippers that I used to get blood samples with. Once or twice a day, the whole area gets wiped down with bleach wipes. When we were taking blood samples to send to the lab, I disinfected the tools and washed my hands between each bird. The sample cards went into the envelope with a sheet of wax paper between them to avoid cross contamination.

I talked to the bird store owner. The attitude was that the birds aren't showing symptoms so there is nothing to be concerned with. That doesn't really work for me. Maybe I'm just being paranoid and overly cautious about it. If the tests come back negative, then there is nothing to worry about. If they come back positive, I'm going to have to reevaluate who I do business with in the future. I buy most of my food online, but I buy the rest at small shops to do my part in supporting local businesses. That may have to change.
 

Mockinbirdiva

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I had a MRSA infection years ago that made me paranoid about germs anyway. Each group of birds has their own feeding syringe. I was going to get a box of disposable ones, but the amount of waste plastic wouldn't be worth it. They all get washed with hot water and soap after each feeding. Same with the feeding dishes and anything else I have to wash. I keep alcohol swabs close by and disinfect anything like nail clippers that I used to get blood samples with. Once or twice a day, the whole area gets wiped down with bleach wipes. When we were taking blood samples to send to the lab, I disinfected the tools and washed my hands between each bird. The sample cards went into the envelope with a sheet of wax paper between them to avoid cross contamination.

I talked to the bird store owner. The attitude was that the birds aren't showing symptoms so there is nothing to be concerned with. That doesn't really work for me. Maybe I'm just being paranoid and overly cautious about it. If the tests come back negative, then there is nothing to worry about. If they come back positive, I'm going to have to reevaluate who I do business with in the future. I buy most of my food online, but I buy the rest at small shops to do my part in supporting local businesses. That may have to change.
You may want to buy F10 as a disinfectant if you don't have any. That's a shame about the store owner... I mean really, you can't look at a person and know they have a contagious disease either until it progresses. It's not fair to the customer who plans on buying a companion bird for their birds at home or even mate. Not fair at all and irresponsible in possible disease spreading. I stopped shopping in the pet store after they bought those birds from the breeder who had the infected polyoma babies. This pet store did test all of their birds..... because I did disclose to them about the breeder and the babies she bought that died. They were not supposed to disclose where they got their information but she did end up calling me. Not a good position to be in but I did what I felt was necessary to protect others.
 

finchly

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I talked to the bird store owner. The attitude was that the birds aren't showing symptoms so there is nothing to be concerned with
:mad2: That’s a sorry attitude! If people hear about this, he could even be held responsible. Ugh.
 

BrianB

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Some of the test have come back. The two that originally tested positive retested 2 weeks later as negative. There are still DNA and PBFD test pending on the other 6. This guys shared the same brooder with one chick that we eventually lost. I pull it as soon as I realized it was ill, but the additional testing is worth my peace of mind. I expect I'll get those results later today. That group is a clutch of 5 pineapples and 1 sun cheek. I've pulled 4 babies since this whole mess began, but they have been quarantined from the others with their own brooder and feeding utensils. I hope this is the end of my breeding season. I feel worked over by it.
 

Zara

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The two that originally tested positive retested 2 weeks later as negative.
Fantastic news!


I´m sorry you lost a chick. I hope it was an unrelated cause.
 

finchly

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That’s got to be hard. I’m glad the 2 tested negative this time.

Sorry about your chick. It’s difficult to lose them.
 
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