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Beak & Feather

BrianB

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UGH - I have a pair of breeding turquoise green cheeks. They only gave me two chicks last year, and I had a waiting list for chicks this year. It's been a strange breeding season with pairs starting late, having calcium issues, etc. So, an opportunity to purchase some turquoise chicks came alone and I did it. The breeder has a large operation, and only sells wholesale to breeders and pet stores. Both myself, and a local bird store owner bought chicks from the same person. The chicks arrived and they were beautiful.

Last weekend, I was talking to a friend who breeds cockatoos and golden conures. He was talking to someone he knows on the east coast and was told about a pet store that purchased chicks from the same place I did, and they were infected with beak and feather. They suffered a large loss because of it.

I had already sent blood samples off for testing and I called the lab and requested they test for B&F as well. Two of them 8 came back positive, but very low indicators for the infection. They suggested I recheck again in 2 weeks to make sure it wasn't a false positive, or cross contamination. In the meantime, I have the two birds isolated and I've got strict procedures in place to make sure it doesn't spread.

The information I've read about this disease is conflicting. Some say it is highly contagious, other say it is not as contagious as it used to be. Some say birds can clear the infection and never have an issue, some say it kills within weeks or months. Does anyone have advice ? At a minimum, I need to get my personal pets tested because I know there are times before the test when I touched one or the other without washing my hands in between. That's 3, a golden that I handle, and the male she shares a cage with. Five in total. There are 7 birds outside that went out prior to the chicks arriving, and the only thing I handle are the food dishes, which get washed with soap and water daily. I'll count them out. I could potentially need to test 38 birds. Food dishes that I touch get washed with soap and hot water daily. The only physical contact I have with the breeders is once or twice a year when I do their nails. I haven't done that since last fall.

So - should I test every bird, or only ones I've been in physical contact with?

Then the question is what do I do with the breeder I bought them from? I'm waiting on the second round of tests before I do anything.
 

Teri Ray

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I'm not a breeder but as a person looking at buying I would hope you'd test those even at low risk of exposure. It's traumatizing to get a pet, fall in love and then find out they have a dangerous illness. Plus if infected babies get out there word of mouth could ruin your reputation as a breeder.
As far as the breeder I'd report them to whatever oversight agency that exists for such things. I doubt they don't know about the issue and its irresponsible for them to continue sending sick animals into the public. Again not a breeder but that's my opinion as a buyer.
 

BeanieofJustice

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Oh wow, I'm so sorry to hear all of that. Hopefully it's a false positive. That's scary. If you can, I'd probably get all the ones that you can tested. But, I'm far from an expert. I don't know much about Beak and Feather so I'm sorry I can't help there.
If they come back positive again, I don't think that it would be bad to contact the place that you got them from. Let them know about the tests.
Sending positive vibes
 

Teri Ray

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P.s. Sorry you ran into this. You must be so stressed out! I know I would be
 

Hankmacaw

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Yuk - what a mess. Like PDD there is conflicting information on how virulent it is and how and how easy it spreads. I can't think of anything for you to do except isolate the two that tested positive, retest them immediately and maintain sterile procedures.

Until you get the second tests back for the ones that tested positive, that will either confirm or eliminate the possibility of B&F.

I'm so sorry, so very sorry.
 

Teri Ray

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Is B&F treatable? What is the standard practice among breeders for disclosing the potential future owners of these babies who tested positive as to their health history? I'm not very familiar with avian illnesses so I'm not sure when these birds recover if knowing that they once had B&F could be important information for their future health care.
 

Hankmacaw

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Zara

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I´m really sorry Brian,
I´m hoping the tests were false positives.


It's traumatizing to get a pet, fall in love and then find out they have a dangerous illness.
I know that when @DoubleTake was searching for a lovebird he sent off his own tests, the first three he saw tested positive for an illness, might have been Polyoma rather than PBFD, but I´m not sure. Either way, it is a smart idea as a buyer.

 
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Teri Ray

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Kodigirl210

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There are 2 - forms. Acute and chronic. Acute form the birds die within 2-4 weeks of contracting it.

Birds can survive with the chronic form but die from secondary infections caused by weakened immune system.

It’s typified by weak and scaling beak, necrotic areas, inability to grow feathers and/or cracked skin.

There is no treatment of the primary disease. There is only the ability to try and manage the secondary issues/infections.

There is possibly a experimental immunization being created but it says it’s stalled due to not wanting to infect birds with the disease to be able to test it.

And all parrots Old or New can contract it.

:(

As for the breeder personally I feel he needs to be held accountable and people need to know. He’s out there selling sick babies that could potentially wipe people out whether it’s a business or a home.
 
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Kodigirl210

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Sadly there is no one regulating birds. It’s why there consistent issue with bird Mills, with sellers deliberately charging outrageous prices “because they can,” irresponsible breeders selling sick birds, selling partially weaned or completely unweaned birds.

Some states like California do have laws about selling exotics, their eggs and are only able to sell fully weaned chicks. So a breeder could be reported and brought up on criminal charges but I think it’s only one of a handful that have the laws.

Florida is a prime example of a place where you can buy from the egg up. Also not certain what the regs are in AZ.
 

Teri Ray

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Sadly there is no one regulating birds. It’s why there consistent issue with bird Mills, with sellers deliberately charging outrageous prices “because they can,” irresponsible breeders selling sick birds, selling partially weaned or completely unweaned birds.

Some states like California do have laws about selling exotics, their eggs and are only able to sell fully weaned chicks. So a breeder could be reported and brought up on criminal charges but I think it’s only one of a handful that have the laws.

Florida is a prime example of a place where you can buy from the egg up. Also not certain what the regs are in AZ.
that's so sad and just wrong. I would out them on social media
 

Kodigirl210

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Yes it is awful. And don’t get me wrong, I know breeders made it possible for me to have my CAG and all, I just wish there were uniform laws for all the states to cover the poor birds for the most egregious conditions: bird-mills, selling sick birds or selling unweaned chicks etc. Pricing will always be contentious due to supply and demand but it doesn’t mean the birds have to suffer for it.
 

Hawk12237

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Kodigirl210

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I don’t agree with outing the people either. These days that can lead to very bad consequences because people are of such a mob mentality that they become almost psychotic in their need to destroy someone to correct a perceived “wrong.”

I would however reach out to others who might have also gotten chicks from the person so they aren’t blind to the circumstances and lose their flocks as well because no one told them. Even if they are already testing there is a lot more isolation and care protocols that could be put in place until the results got back.
 

Mockinbirdiva

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Gosh Brian, I'm really sorry to hear that. I too, feel you need to wait and see what the second tests say before making it public information to keep others from having to go through what you are. I would though, contact the breeder and let them know what the test results are and if they are banded give them the band numbers so he can identify the parents and check his flocks within that aviary the chicks came out of. They need to put a hold on selling anything from their operation immediately pending the second tests on your babies.

Years ago, I knew a lady that went to bird fairs to sell birds. I'd never been to her house so I didn't know all what she had. In our phone conversations I knew what her recent bird purchases were. She bought unweaned Hans Macaws and unweaned quakers from another breeder to take to the bird fair to sell. After a few days one of the Hans died...then a day later another as well as a quaker. She got worried and took the deceased babies to a state lab and had them tested. They had Polyoma. A couple weeks later I went to a pet store I bought supplies in and saw a couple of adult Alexandrine parrots and a few other birds.. conures. I asked where they had come from ( I did know she had the Alex's) and when they told me they bought some of her stock I was pretty upset about it. Basically, she was dumping all of her birds as fast as she could because of the Polyoma. I highly doubt she took precautions when she brought those babies home. She had bought a pair of goffins from another lady I knew.... she got rid of those too.... everything. She put many other people at risk of spreading a disease. Extremely unethical. As far as I was concerned.. she was selling out to avoid losing money on birds that could potentially die of this disease. She also sold a pair of dilute fischers lovebirds as a proven pair to someone else I knew. Those birds never produced any babies for her. Hundreds of these people are out there. I am going to hope the second tests are negative for you and from now on keep a closed flock. The risks are too high when you have many birds.
 

Kodigirl210

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But that’s the point. Some of this person’s birds did have the disease as the birds in New York proved. Hopefully Brian’s end up negative but others who may have recently got their birds from him don’t know and they need to because theirs might be positive, even though Brian’s may be negative. :(
 

BrianB

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I’m waiting for confirmation before I say anything to the breeder. Public disclosure at this point isn’t an option. If I name them and the tests come back negative, then I’ve damaged someone’s reputation for no reason. That’s not something I am willing to do and as a breeder myself in turn it will damage my own reputation. That doesn’t help anyone. I prefer to speak to them privately to resolve the matter and hopefully get reassurance that positive steps are being taken to eradicate the infection from their flock.

Unfortunately this breeder doesn’t band their chicks. Due to the sheer size of the operation I’m not sure it’s even possible. I keep my own records with unique identifiers for chicks and adults. I was planning on handing next year. If this year is a complete bust then I’ll have to reevaluate where I stand. Maybe this is a hobby but not a good business for me.

I did speak to a local pet shop owner who also purchased birds from the same breeder. It's the right thing to do. He's the one I asked to take a look at the conure chick I have with the odd beak. That bird is one of two that tested positive. I understand that one of the chicks he got is not doing well, so we're in this boat together. What he will do about it, I'm not sure, but I'm going to check in with him this weekend. He's been in the business a long time, and knows far more people than I do. He's also got a bit more fire when it comes to dealing with other breeders. If either of us can get results, my bet is on him.
 
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