Ants in aviary

[javi]

So with the unusual rain we have had there are now ants in the aviary. They are sticking to the ground which is better than calling up the perches and such. However the birds do fly down to the ground a lot. Especially since they spill food. Since they are outside I rarely put out fresh food since our temps are over 90 9 months of the year. I regularly rake out the bottom to get the spilled food out. I do worry that the ants will attack the birds. Especially since there are birds on eggs in nests and once those babies hatch I feel it will attract the ants.
So I am looking for options that will work and the quicker the better. So far I have looked up making boric acid mixtures to place all over. I don't want birds to eat them so I am thinking small plastic containers with lids that have several holes for ants to crawl through. The next option would be to go in and spray a poison like liquid sevin at like 9pm when all birds are asleep high in perches. Then when I wake up at 6am to get ready for work to spray down the ground for about 20 to 30 minutes to flush it all out. Again still so dark that birds will be on the perches. I am really dreading the idea of that but thinking it would be the fastest. may just spray the area around area with the poison to try and combat it.
And it is a lot of ants

 

[javi]

Ok so with what I have read online. Most of the poisons I have looked at like sevin and triazicide are safe once they have dried. So spraying the ground (which I fogot to mention is gravel) when they are all asleep would be ok. Then I could make the traps with boric acid in case any others try to move in. I just need them gone. I guess I am gonna go home after work and rake out everything really well and then wait til it gets dark.

 

[Familyof12]

Diatomaceous earth. You can eat it and it will kill any bug with an external skeleton. It's the safest and best method. Kills mites, fleas, anything hard bodied. It's totally edible but careful with the powder, it's really very fine. Very cheap at your local pet store that sell hay or feed.

Try this before the boric acid as that kills all other things. I use this only on the anthills themselves outside but I also cover with a heavy can and rock so the puppies or other animals don't get sick from it.

 

[saroj12]

I'm using Avian Insect Liquidator shipped from Australia. It's bird safe and amazingly efficacious.

 

[javi]

Yea I was thinking of buying some diatomaceous earth as well. I usually give to chickens to bathe in. I was also thinking about the boric acid. Couldn't I sprinkle all over the bottom of aviary and then get wet. Wouldn't that kill all ants. Then I was thinking about the boric acid ant trap things. I bought a while back those water crystal gel things that people hydrate to give to feeder insects. Would it absorb or hold the sugar,borax, water mixture? Oh so many thoughts.

 

[javi]

Any idea what the active ingredient is in the Avian Insect liquidator.

 

[Familyof12]

Three ingredients.
1. Permethrin 25g/L.
2. Piperonyl Butoxide 125g/L; and
3. Methoprene 0.4g/L.

I'm not crazy about man made insect repellents. I keep a large garden and I like the least toxic. I use DE and it is fine when it gets wet, you just have to reapply. I sprinkle the birds with it. They will flop around and get it in their wings and head. Then they groom for the rest of the day. The chickens just bathe in it all day. We have a large plastic tub we keep it filled for them. We've put it on our floors and vacuum the house. We also wetvac once a month. We have dogs that go in and out (they are treated) but if they carry things in, I don't want to deal with them. I hate having to kill anything, even bugs.

ladygouldianfinch.com - Avian Insect Liquidator

Application: Hold spray bottle 11 to 12 inches from the bird and apply four to five pumps per bird. Also spray cages, aviaries, perches and nest boxes thoroughly with diluted product. Repeat in six weeks or as necessary.

Note: Do not use with Reptiles or Fish.
Permethrin and Pets
The FDA has approved several permethrin-based products for use on dogs, including sprays and spot-on's. Some dogs have been known to exhibit side effects ranging from skin redness and irritation to drooling, vomiting, diarrhea, lethargy or seizures. In the case of severe symptoms, call your vet immediately. Skin irritation can be relieved by bathing your dog to remove the substance, but you should still consult your veterinarian. Permethrin shouldn't be used on young puppies (under 12 weeks), pregnant or nursing dogs, sick dogs, or dogs with kidney, liver or heart disease. It should never be used in conjunction with flea or tick collars or other flea/tick sprays.

If you are only using Permethrin to protect against fleas and ticks, there are alternatives which have far less risk of side effects. Ask your veterinarian.

NEVER use permethrin on cats! Exercise caution and follow label warnings when using permethrin products if you have cats.. Avoid using it on dogs who play with or are groomed by family cats. Don't use it around fish tanks or ponds either as it is toxic to fish.
Permethrin Insecticide - FAQ and Information

2. Piperonyl Butoxide 125g/L
Acute toxicity studies are designed to identify potential hazards from acute exposures. The studies usually employ a single or a few high doses over a short time period. The data are used for the development of appropriate precautionary statements for pesticide product labels. Acute studies identify:

• Dermal toxicity
• Eye irritation
• Inhalation toxicity
• Oral toxicity
• Skin irritation
• Skin sensitization

PBO has a low acute toxicity by oral, inhalation, and dermal routes. It is minimally irritating to the eyes and skin. It is a not a skin sensitizer.


3. Methoprene 0.4g/L
Methoprene General Fact Sheet
Can methoprene affect birds, fish, or other wildlife?
Methoprene is moderately toxic to some fish and low in toxicity to others. Methoprene can accumulate in fish tissues. It is slightly toxic to crustaceans such as shrimp and crayfish, and very highly toxic to freshwater invertebrates.

Methoprene is relatively non-toxic to birds. It also appears to be low in toxicity to adult bees, although bee larvae may be more sensitive.

 

[saroj12]

De causes breathing problems.

 

[Sweet Louise]

google: Ants greatly dislike the smell of peppermint, probably because it interferes with their ability to communicate via pheromone markings. While growing peppermint around your house is one possible method for using this popular herb to deter ants (and other pests), you can also mix up a peppermint essential oil and water solution – about 10 drops in a small bottle of water – to spray windowsills and door frames or directly onto lines of marching ants to get rid of these pests. At the same time, your home will be filled with the delightful scent of mint! It’s a win-win solution!
Not sure if the mint is too much scent for a bird??

 

[saroj12]

You can't use essential oils around birds.

 

[finchly]

De causes breathing problems.

Do you know this from personal experience? It never has with my birds, and at least one manufacturer uses it in their bird seed. It's spose to be harmless. We put it down with this spray gun like thing so that it doesn't cloud up.

Peppermint oil at that dilution should be no problem for birds.

@javi I convinced hubby to do away with our 'bug man' contract after noticing he just uses DE for the ants. He follows them to the place they're coming in, tracks it on the outside, and puts the DE in both places. I sprinkle it occasionally around the edges of the bird room, which are mostly covered up with cages, and I sprinkle it on the trays beneath their grates too. And of course, vacuum / mop and dispose of excess seed, food, etc.

 

[saroj12]

For three months on the advice of my vet, I placed a thick layer of de along the baseboards. Then my air purifier started acting up and when we took out the filter it was clogged with de. So were all the windowsills that my cleaner neglected to clean. That night the birds choked and sneezed and made it through the night because I hadn't realized the purifier was spewing out de. No more de indoors here. I bought a ew filter.

 

[Familyof12]

Yes DE can cause irritation with breathing but so would lots of dust, and it would have to be in large quantities. This cuts through the chitin of the insect and kills but can be ingested

The main ingredient in Avian Insect Liquidator is Permethrin, an "insecticide (kills insects) rather than an insect repellent", meaning it kills on contact. Any chemical that kills a bug on contact is pretty strong. Everyone chooses what acceptable in their home and not. If you have a bad red mite infestation, fleas or other things that could cause an illness, then yes, of course I'd use it. I do hate using ingredients that are this strong. Neem oil/spray is considered organic but it is similar in that it interrupts the hormonal cycle in bug populations by inhibiting eating and/or reproductive behavior and affects the little critters by screwing with their endocrine systems. That being said, we don't know if it affects our bee population.

The second ingredient happens to assist the first ingredient by bumping the power up to boost the effectiveness of Permethrin making it a much stronger chemical used in combo. The last ingredient seems to mainly attach mucus areas such as eyes, nose and mouth. Toxic to fish, so if you have an aquarium, you may need to be a little more careful. So...that being said, I am not a fan of man made insecticides. You can use fresh peppermint. Fairly easy to grow indoors and if you have a bright spot, grow it indoors around your birds. It doesn't have to be oils.

By the way, I've used ex-lax to kill ants too (put two tablets in water, power into ant hole), Dawn dishwashing soap mixed with water sprayed outside kills most all insects, spray in the evening if spraying directly on plants, as sun begins to fall, not during the hot day as this mixture can hurt plants. The soap causes the bugs to not move as it dries. Anything with wings (insects) will have their wings glued to their bodies. Baking soda, if desperate, works wonders for fungus/mold/bacteria spores in the air too. Keep some convenient ones hidden outside their cages in their room.

Everyone here is wonderful and have lots of experience with their birds. I want to know why an ingredient causes an outcome. I want to know exactly how it works so I can decide whether I want to use it in my home or not. Everyone makes their own decisions and I respect all of them. I have a neighbor who loves weed killer. He sprays his lawn like crazy, and you can tell as all the earthworms are all trying to escape into my yard by the thousands and a lot end up dying on the sidewalk. Now he informs me before he sprays so I can get my family to the other side for safety. I can only imagine any animal that may land and run through his yard are poisoned would take that poison back to their nests to feed it to their babies. I have bugs in my yard. To me that represents a healthy garden. The birds eat the bugs and feed their babies. I watch them on my fence every year (almost 30 now), mommy and daddy birds showing babies how to fly. We always have tons of birds nests in our yard. More bugs, more birds in my yard.

 

[saroj12]

It takes three to four minutes to kill the ants. The first time I used it I kept spraying and spraying till they drowned and caused a breathing problem in the bird room, plus my nose was burning. Now I use it very very lightly.

 

[javi]

Well I got home late so I did not have time to get into aviary to clean up real good before spraying the ground. So I will do it tomorrow when I get home hopefully.

 

[karen256]

I think food grade DE on the floor of an outdoor aviary would be ok, any very fine dust would be carried off in the breeze and shouldn't bother the birds.
You might also try soap - insecticidal soap or even just dish soap (I don't remember the dilution but only a tablespoon or two in a spray bottle of water). I would not use it when the birds are actually in there, but it's pretty safe. If you spray it all over everything, the soap forms a film over insects' breathing pores and they suffocate (no poison). Of course, it will only kill the ants that are sprayed directly.

 

[javi]

Well I sprayed the bottom of aviary and the area around aviary with triazicide the other day. Killed off all the ants and birds are great. No issues. Made the borax sugar mix and have those with the water crystal things. Just need to figure how to make trap/feeder thing. Thinking plastic gladware containers with holes. Then placing those in tiny wire cages to keep birds away.