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Am I wrong?

Leanna

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So I recently got into an argument with a friend of mine who rescues animals. She was mad at me for not taking on a rescue and instead going with a breeder for Milo. She thinks I was being selfish for not adopting a bird. Her opinion was that most parrots aren't lucky enough to get an owner like me and since I have the ability and means, it was my responsibility to adopt if I wanted another bird. I know I'm one of the better choices for a parrot owner. Primarily because I can take a bleeding bite everyday and will still let the bird out for training/interaction everyday. I did this for 3 years with ex husband's conure, who hated me and wanted me dead. Enough to fly across the room just to bite me.

So why didn't I adopt? I wanted an eckie. I would not settle for a species I wasn't passionate about. I could not find one that was willing to adopt to people out of state. I don't use craigslist for personal reasons.

In the end my vet said Milo was essentially a rescue when you consider he only had a couple more weeks to live if he stayed with that breeder. I was mad at the breeder, heartbroken at Milo's state. But completely unwilling to send him back to the son of ***** for a refund, which I was told was my only option. I thought Milo's life was more important than sticking it to the breeder.

Now I feel a little like...maybe my friend was right. I will never regret Milo, but I feel very guilty about supporting such a terrible breeder. I love my little fruit vulture but I had no idea breeders could be so bad. I was spoiled with my previous breeder. That breeder encouraged me to come by at least once a week when the chicks were still being hand fed so they would know me when we went home. They were in perfect health when I adopted them and I still have behavioral support to this day from the lady I adopted her from. I now see how rare that is. Anyway...I guess I just wanted to get that off my chest and wanted to know if anyone else has the same guilt.
 

BeanieofJustice

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Every bird needs a home. I feel guilty that I brought Tibs home from a store where he was hatched to sell. I'd wanted an adult bird and I'd planned on trying to go through a rescue but, I bonded with him. He'd been there for months. Things happen.
Whatever comfort it might offer; at least there's one less bird out there who ends up in a rescue or worse.
 

EkkieLu

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I feel it is our own personal decision on what companion baby we choose to spend our lives with. No one should criticize anyone for this. Never feel guilty for these choices!

I get criticized for keeping my ekkie Lucy all the time and it upsets me terribly! I can't touch her, she bites and draws blood every chance she gets, doesn't get along with and will even viciously attack my other birds, her favorite sport is flinging blueberry skins at the wall, and yet I love her dearly. But that is my choice just like choosing Milo is yours.

So chin up! You did something to make yourself happy and that's a very positive thing! Blessings!!!
 

cassiesdad

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My hope is that anyone considering adding a bird to their family will choose adoption...but I will never berate anyone who chooses to go to a breeder...I have no right to pass judgement on other people, period...
 

hrafn

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While rescue birds do need homes, so did Milo. Does he deserve any less because of where he comes from? Birds don't choose their pasts. You have given Milo a happy and loving home, and because of you he didn't die in squalor.

One of my birds was adopted from a shelter, one was bought at a pet store, one was bought from a reputable breeder, and one was bought off of a scumbag on Kijiji. Every one of them is precious to me, and I would never change bringing them home and into my life. I do feel a little guilty for lining the pockets of Petland and Taco's old owners, but if I hadn't done so, where would Kraz and Taco be?

I will support and vouch for rescue and rescue pets for as long as I live, but I'll never berate anyone for their choices so long as they provide a good home. Don't feel guilty; you love Milo, and that's what really matters.
 

iamwhoiam

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You should not feel guilty at all. You got Milo away from a bad situation and he is now in a loving and caring home. You should post reviews of the breeder online so that others know about the person and will, hopefully, stay away.
 

Love My Zons

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I would not feel guilty. I have adopted one, but my Amazons both came to me from breeders and were babies. I wouldn't change anything of what I did. But knowing so many out there need homes, I would never buy another again, and matter of fact that's a true statement!

As for dogs, I have adopted 3, I have purchased two. As much as my life breed is the Sheltie, I would try to adopt a rescue again. But sometimes when we want something, they are not available. Sometimes they are, but my sub conscience will always tell me to adopt. There is a part in my mind of getting a Sheltie puppy that I miss and haven't had in many, many years.

As for the mutties of the world yes to adopt and I always will. Do not feel bad for what you decided to do. :)
 

melissasparrots

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You don't need to justify your decision to get a pet from a breeder. Just ignore the opinion of the judgy people. Also, just because you got this one from a breeder, doesn't mean you can't rescue one in the future. Where you get a pet from is none of anyone's business. Enjoy your bird.
 

taxidermynerd

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I feel like you should adopt if you are able to, but I would never hold it against anyone to buy a pet from a store/breeder/other. Your friend is being mega-garbage, saying that kind of thing.

All of my pets have come from breeders/shops. I feel that being a first-time bird owner, it would have been highly irresponsible of me to take on a bird that would be more than I could handle and have to give them up, putting the bird through more trauma.

I got Roxie from a breeder, although not a good one. A God-awful one, actually. Roxie was one of 3 babies, originally from a litter of 6. The other 3 were killed by the mother. I feel terrible that I supported the breeder (who was pure garbage), but I couldn't live with myself if I had left her there. It's not her fault she was in that situation. She deserved a good home just as much as any other pet. I lost many nights of sleep, thinking about the other dogs there.

So when people say I'm terrible because I got my dog from a breeder, I tell them to shove it. If they think I should have left her there, they can rot. And how often do you want to bet they donate to their local shelter? I donate at least every couple months when I can spare it, which is probably more than they do.
 

Ripshod

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While I do advocate adoption against buying direct, I appreciate that the whole population of a species will not change no matter what I do. If I decide to buy a bird from a breeder that's one less bird to end up in a rescue, or dead.
My hope is that anyone considering adding a bird to their family will choose adoption...but I will never berate anyone who chooses to go to a breeder...I have no right to pass judgement on other people, period...
Too right!
 

Teckechick

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:sadhug: Choice is a beautiful thing that we are lucky to have!! Don’t let anyone tell you that you are wrong if you feel you made the best choice for you! Besides Milo was a rescue, just not from a shelter! An animal doesn’t have to be in a rescue or shelter to need help. Three of my four needed rescued just not from a shelter.
 

Gen120

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I agree with other posters above. It has to be your own personal choice. I have done both, rescues and babies. My first birds were babies, my first ever large parrot and amazon was a rescue that was abused before I got her. I didn't know what I was doing with her and I'm sure I had people doubt me. But don't let it bother you if you can, you know you rescued Milo and that's all that matters. Regardless if you rescued him from a breeder or a rescue, he's still a rescue! One of my conures I got from a breeder but I considered her a rescue because the breeder I got her from was neglectful.
 

Leanna

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Thanks for all your reassurances. It actually does make me feel a bit better about the whole thing. I'm glad you all echoed my same thought of 'Well I can't give him back to that man now.' According to my vet, this happens a lot. He's seen multiple birds that weren't raised well but the owners were stuck because they didn't want to doom the bird by demanding a refund.

You should not feel guilty at all. You got Milo away from a bad situation and he is now in a loving and caring home. You should post reviews of the breeder online so that others know about the person and will, hopefully, stay away.
For legal reasons, I am no longer allowed to publicly comment on this man's 'business practices'. But my vet did file a formal compliant though so hopefully something came of that.

I suppose the one who I really feel the worst for is Milo, who's growth was so permanently stunted he will likely never be more than 280 grams. When I got him he was only three months old. My vet suspects he could have even been less than that despite what my paperwork says. I felt completely unqualified to deal with Milo's problems when I got him. Sometimes I still do. I had to hand feed him three times a day and teach him how to bird (pretty unsuccessfully as I'm not a bird myself)

He still to has issues I have no idea how to address. His cage is 40 in by 30 and I swear he spends most of the time one of the perches waiting patiently for me to come get him. What bothers me most is that I can't get him to even look at a toy despite the fact he has at least 9 in his cage. I change these out every week to keep it fresh and they're completely untouched. Fortunately my other birds are caiques with the destructive capacity of a 1000 men so they never go to waste but still. I hate the idea of him doing nothing all day. I've tried active forging techniques but no dice on that either.

I love Milo and part of me thinks he was worth every bit of the 2000 I spent on him and his wonderful little personality. The other more realistic part of me thinks I can't believe I paid someone two grand to profoundly neglect an animal.
 

Monica

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Without echoing everyone else's thoughts on the matter (which I agree with), I'll just address the toy issue.

Have you tried target training Milo at all? This can be a great way to teach him to play with toys! Heck, you could even set a toy up near where he perches in such a way that he can't avoid *not* touching it, then reward him for accidentally touching it! (even if you have to encourage him to touch it by calling to him from the other side of the toy). You can *shape* the behavior of him playing!

With foraging... easy one is to get 5-6 *small* food dishes and place them around the cage at different heights/levels and locations. Then, split up his daily food into these cups. After a while, you can always add in plain pistachio shells, some large/smooth rocks (not small enough to eat, but big enough you can kind of hide food in/around them) or something similar to start teaching him foraging activities. Heck, you could even just cover the dishes with paper towels with large holes in them! If he gets comfortable eating through the hole, you can make the hole smaller and smaller until he is forced to make the hole himself to get to the food!


Don't give up! :)
 

Rain Bow

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Without echoing everyone else's thoughts on the matter (which I agree with), I'll just address the toy issue.

Have you tried target training Milo at all? This can be a great way to teach him to play with toys! Heck, you could even set a toy up near where he perches in such a way that he can't avoid *not* touching it, then reward him for accidentally touching it! (even if you have to encourage him to touch it by calling to him from the other side of the toy). You can *shape* the behavior of him playing!

With foraging... easy one is to get 5-6 *small* food dishes and place them around the cage at different heights/levels and locations. Then, split up his daily food into these cups. After a while, you can always add in plain pistachio shells, some large/smooth rocks (not small enough to eat, but big enough you can kind of hide food in/around them) or something similar to start teaching him foraging activities. Heck, you could even just cover the dishes with paper towels with large holes in them! If he gets comfortable eating through the hole, you can make the hole smaller and smaller until he is forced to make the hole himself to get to the food!


Don't give up! :)

Buddy knew about hanging cage toys but didn't know about teaching toys & footie toys. I taught him to chew foot toys by just pretending to chew it & then hand the toy to him. When he put it in his mouth I'd say thats it "Bite it & Good boy!". He went off the hanging toys for a long long while. I 'm not sure if he was bored w/ them or if the footies became a shiny penny. He now (after 2 yrs w/ us) plays w/ both. His teaching toys we do together. We spend the after dinner - bedtime doing our teaching stuff usually. He's not a morning fid, which is funny he used to get up @ dawn when my Dad was alive. Now he gets up later but does probably a million new things that he didn't do when my Dad had him. He's king of my castle too :king:

:nicetalkin2u:
 

fashionfobie

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I agree with these posts. Adoption is no easy task. When there is a little life who needs support, they are definitely not responsible for their situation. They just want treats, a safe home and love.


I volunteered for years at a humane society for dogs and cats. The worst thing is the amount of dogs that are returned to the shelter. A large % are returned for a 2nd or 3rd time.

I have a friend who always adopts and she can be preachy about adoption. I love this friend to bits! She is a very good person and my best friend. However I can't agree with her. Adoption is not the only answer, and it doesn't work for everyone. It is a lot of work to take on a rescue. Your life needs to be set up for it. A rescue dog needs extra care and support. They have a lot of baggage they are sorting out. I think expecting everyone to adopt is unrealistic .. and a big part of why so many rescues are returned to the shelter.

In all honesty I adopted 4 older huskies once. The next dog I got was a puppy from a very quality breeder. I wouldn't have done anything differently.


I don't think this is different for birds. The traumas of the loss of their flock or pack. The abuses some of them endured. It is a tough situation. I will always suggest adoption because I don't think some people are aware of bird rescues. Some bird rescues are sorta hidden in plain sight. I think it is important for people who want to bring home a long lived species like a white cockatoo to see the rescues for a reality check. If after all of that they still want a baby, it is their choice.

My current flock of 3 are all from breeders. My goffin was from a pet shop, but she had splay legs and a few other difficulties. I didn't feel like I wronged her when I gave her a home.

I think it is most important that any animals has a forever home. However they find their way home is not important. There is so much social pressure to adopt. We are the ones making this for ourselves. I think instead of being obsessed with adoption we should improve licensing and regulate breeding more heavily. --only my opinion. We need a license to own ekkies, cockatoos and many other birds in Queensland. It doesn't guarantee all the birds get perfect care, but there are fewer issues with cockatoos stuck in shelters.
 

Leanna

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@Monica Target training is hard with him as he's not very food motivated. He likes walnuts but the vet has been telling me to lay off them for a bit. Foraging is kind of the same way. I had originally tried covering the bowl halfway in paper but I was a bit horrified when Milo hadn't touched it all day. His weight is much better now but it's not good enough where he could afford to lose any more.

Mostly I think he's suspicious of toys and his large cage because he never had it before me. He's come along way from where he was in that now he wants nothing more than to hang out and babble at people.

@fashionfobie I agree with you on the licensing thing. Some sort of test or certification in basic bird care in order to own one would be nice too. The US has pretty shoddy exotic animal protection. I was talking with some people at work about owning parrots and my colleague from Germany was horrified people clipped wings here and didn't always handle their budgies.
 

SherLar

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Hmmm. So do you give birth to your own children, adopt, or do foster care? All choices we make, same with what we chose to eat and dress. People can only decide what is best for them. Do not chose for other people. She can do as she chooses with her life.

sherri
 

Monica

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Target training is hard with him as he's not very food motivated. He likes walnuts but the vet has been telling me to lay off them for a bit. Foraging is kind of the same way. I had originally tried covering the bowl halfway in paper but I was a bit horrified when Milo hadn't touched it all day. His weight is much better now but it's not good enough where he could afford to lose any more.
When using treats as a reward system, you want the reward to be the size of half a sunflower seed or less. Is there anything in his current diet that he really enjoys? At least 2-3 items? If yes, you could remove those from his diet and use as foraging rewards or training rewards.

You might also try other *easy* foraging ideas or make the ideas you've already tried even easier. Heck, an easy one is to get some grass (some people use the fake stuff!) and sprinkle it with dry food... or something to that effect. Don't give up, just keep trying!
 
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