• Welcome to Avian Avenue! To view our forum with less advertisments please register with us.
    Memberships are free and it will just take a moment. Click here

Am I moving too fast?Looking for advice

dumpling98

Walking the driveway
Joined
1/22/19
Messages
173
Location
Romania
Hello dear bird owners. Me and Candy (my new cockatiel) have been living together for 21 days. Got her from the petstore. I think she is young ( because usually they get only young birds) and that she is a female, ( they didn't know her sex at the store) because she is very quiet, doesn't whistle. She is uncliped.

She sleeps in my room and I think she got used to her new home in about 1 week. After 2 weeks she began to show some attitude and sass.

I've began clicker training to start the bonding process.

This is where we are now:

Candy comes out of the cage on her perch in front, and I let her out of her cage in an improvised play gym near her cage.

She has no problem with me sitting close to her. As long as I keep my hands behind I can even breeth down her neck, that close I can be.

She eats out of my fingers. But doesn't eat out of my palm. She hates my full hand, but tolerates fingers holding the food.

Now that she is more sassy and confortable, she began hissing and jumping at my hand to bite when I annoy her. But her bites are not painful, more like nips, and I ignore her.

I saw that we have more success bonding outside her cage so most of our interactions are outside the cage. I only get in the cage to change food,water and toys. (and she hisses a lot)

I give her the option to retreat. For example when she sits at the opening of the cage, it is her way of saying that I can tolarate you and your plans lol , so that's where we usually start training. If she had enough, she goes back in and I give her space and let her be.

She even began to step up for millet. If I hold the millet spray in my hand she will step up on my fingers. So far she's been very witchy about it. Like she hisses and tries to bite, so I leave her for 1 min, and when I return she steps up and starts eating. She actually steps up nicely and actually doesn't fly from my fingers when she is there eating, so this is our way of moving her to her play gym and back to the cage.

She doesn't want to play with me yet. Like she tolerates me in "her" room but she doesn't fly to me or want explore my room. She sits in her cage or play gym and does her stuff.

I find her very lazy. She has a gym and perches to fly to but she prefers to just walk, climb and not fly. She's been out every day in her play gym all week and hasn't flew at least once.

When she is in her play gym, we do clicker training. She goes from side to side no problem, but as soon as it becomes too much effort, she loses interest. So I feel like we're not advancing in clicker training, but at least she goes 6-7 steps in a direction to get the stick.

She is extremly hesistant with me. Like when I offer her some treats, she eyes me and slowly, after 1 minute of starring she takes the treat quicky.

What should I do from here? She is very afraid of my hands. She tolerates me around here. She steps up with millet, not without, but still won't eat out of my palm.

Should I try sticking my hand in her cage? I am reluctant as I feel we bond easier outside at her playgym.

Sorry for the long text and thank you for reading!!


Here I included a pic of Candy stepping up.
 

Attachments

janicedyh

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Joined
7/24/16
Messages
1,821
Real Name
Janice
Give her time. No, don't stick your hand in her cage to get her, it will only make things worse. Can you sit close to her and play with something shes interested in? If you have something like shredder strips you could sit in front of her while sticking sunflower seeds in it. If she doesn't come closer then just hand that to her or sit it where she can get it. Do that a few times and I bet she comes over to you while you are doing it
 

dumpling98

Walking the driveway
Joined
1/22/19
Messages
173
Location
Romania
Give her time. No, don't stick your hand in her cage to get her, it will only make things worse. Can you sit close to her and play with something shes interested in? If you have something like shredder strips you could sit in front of her while sticking sunflower seeds in it. If she doesn't come closer then just hand that to her or sit it where she can get it. Do that a few times and I bet she comes over to you while you are doing it
thank you for the advise. So far we don't have any activities that she likes to do with me, except target training. I will do as you say, stay close to her and hand her treats and toys.
 

ConureTiel

Sprinting down the street
Avenue Veteran
Joined
6/24/14
Messages
534
Location
Virginia, USA
Another idea might be to mix up the behaviors you ask for a little more often in clicker training. Birds are smart and get bored easily in my experience; if she's going side to side 6-7 steps to target the stick (I think that's what you meant, sorry if I misunderstood), I think that's actually very good. But I'd be sure to mix it up by varying how many steps you ask for each time -- make it random, such as, 1 step and click/treat; next time 3 and c/t, next 6 c/t, next time 2 and c/t, something like that. But overall I'd only do 2-4 trials of that behavior and then I'd do something else. If she's targeting a stick, another neat and easy trick to teach is turning around on her perch -- lots of youtube vids and the like showing you how to train that, if you don't already know. And don't worry about the flying -- keep the room very safe! and she'll fly in her own time. Or, she won't. I doubt she's lazy, more timid, and preferring to stay near her comfort zone for now.

I think you're making good progress, actually, just be aware that birds often take a long time to bond. And leaving her alone when she signals that she doesn't want to interact, as you've been doing, is exactly the right way to earn her trust and affection. But there's nothing sweeter than a cockatiel hen. Eventually she'll be happy to spend lots of time on or near you!
 

dumpling98

Walking the driveway
Joined
1/22/19
Messages
173
Location
Romania
Another idea might be to mix up the behaviors you ask for a little more often in clicker training. Birds are smart and get bored easily in my experience; if she's going side to side 6-7 steps to target the stick (I think that's what you meant, sorry if I misunderstood), I think that's actually very good. But I'd be sure to mix it up by varying how many steps you ask for each time -- make it random, such as, 1 step and click/treat; next time 3 and c/t, next 6 c/t, next time 2 and c/t, something like that. But overall I'd only do 2-4 trials of that behavior and then I'd do something else. If she's targeting a stick, another neat and easy trick to teach is turning around on her perch -- lots of youtube vids and the like showing you how to train that, if you don't already know. And don't worry about the flying -- keep the room very safe! and she'll fly in her own time. Or, she won't. I doubt she's lazy, more timid, and preferring to stay near her comfort zone for now.

I think you're making good progress, actually, just be aware that birds often take a long time to bond. And leaving her alone when she signals that she doesn't want to interact, as you've been doing, is exactly the right way to earn her trust and affection. But there's nothing sweeter than a cockatiel hen. Eventually she'll be happy to spend lots of time on or near you!
Hello! I've been thinking of teaching her other tricks, but I feel we are stuck. Like we are not making progress in target training and we are stuck at 6-7 steps part, and no more. For example, I think spinning trick is too difficult for her. She won't follow the stick at all and won't even bother to turn. Isn't there any other trick that could easy to teach to a bird that is afraid of hands?
 

saroj12

Ripping up the road
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/15/09
Messages
60,239
Location
fl
Real Name
saroj
What is her favorite treat? Almond bit walnut bit?
 

dumpling98

Walking the driveway
Joined
1/22/19
Messages
173
Location
Romania
What is her favorite treat? Almond bit walnut bit?
So far her favorite treat is spray millet. Only thing that really makes her move.

Still introducing new foods in her diet, but haven't found something that quiet matches the love for spray millet.
 

saroj12

Ripping up the road
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/15/09
Messages
60,239
Location
fl
Real Name
saroj
So far her favorite treat is spray millet. Only thing that really makes her move.

Still introducing new foods in her diet, but haven't found something that quiet matches the love for spray millet.
Then remove millet totally from her diet and only use it for training. Or is millet the only food she eats?
 

dumpling98

Walking the driveway
Joined
1/22/19
Messages
173
Location
Romania
Then remove millet totally from her diet and only use it for training. Or is millet the only thing she eats?
She doesn't consider millet spray and millet seeds in her mix the same, but I still can't use the millet spray only for training. It is the only thing that I can use for bribing to get her to step up and such. Because she still doesn't trust me enough. And when I'm doubt that she is upset by one of my actions, I always try to sweeten it by giving her a few bites of spray millet.

Maybe if I try giving her sunflower seeds as reward for training and keeping millet spray for general bribing? But she doesn't quiet like sunflower seeds as she likes millet. She doesn't even eat them in her seed mix unless they are cracked.
 

saroj12

Ripping up the road
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/15/09
Messages
60,239
Location
fl
Real Name
saroj
A whole sunflower seed is too much. You want to cut a shelled sunflower seed into four or five pieces. The treat should not distract from the training so they should be able to eat it quickly. Look up target training on the internet and you will learn a lot
 

saroj12

Ripping up the road
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/15/09
Messages
60,239
Location
fl
Real Name
saroj
Bribing to step up is also training
 

Fuzzy

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/30/10
Messages
4,360
Location
Jersey, Channel Islands
Real Name
Roz
It sounds like you have been doing really well getting to know her. You should keep a diary of her progress so that when you think you aren't making any, you can look back and see that actually you have made lots! :D

Training will only work with something she really, really likes... ie. something that is highly reinforcing. If a bite of millet spray is her favourite food, she is more likely to work for that rather than sunflower. If you remove it from her cage and use it only for training, as has been suggested, (ie the step up, targeting etc.), then the millet spray will become all the more special.

It feels to me you are pushing her too hard. I think you know that by saying:

And when I'm doubt that she is upset by one of my actions, I always try to sweeten it by giving her a few bites of spray millet.
You shouldn't be pushing her so that she might be "upset". What you are also doing here is reinforcing (rewarding) what you see as her being "upset". So for example if she "hisses and jumps at your hand" and you see this as being upset and you give her some millet spray, you are reinforcing more hissing and jumping at your hand.

When she is in her play gym, we do clicker training. She goes from side to side no problem, but as soon as it becomes too much effort, she loses interest. So I feel like we're not advancing in clicker training, but at least she goes 6-7 steps in a direction to get the stick.
Perhaps it becomes too much effort because she loses interest. As has been mentioned keep training sessions REALLY short. Always end the session on a successful note/step. That way she will look forward to more training in the future. Try training just for 20 or 30 seconds here and there through the day. She may also lose interest because she is not hungry for the treat any longer. I like chocolate, but there will be only a certain window of time in which I will work for it. After a while I will feel sick and it won't be worth my while to follow the target any longer. ;)

She is extremly hesistant with me. Like when I offer her some treats, she eyes me and slowly, after 1 minute of starring she takes the treat quicky.

What should I do from here? She is very afraid of my hands. She tolerates me around here. She steps up with millet, not without, but still won't eat out of my palm
I'd work too on just getting her to take a treat from your fingers. Showing her through repetition that nothing is going to happen, that you are trustworthy. Then as she is eating from your fingers you could gradually start opening your hand to show your palm. Very gradually.... over days even. Watch her reaction carefully and never go as far as her being uncomfortable.

As Saroj said, bribing is also part of training. Right now the millet is the only reason to step up. The only reinforcer you have. Perfectly normal with a new or untame bird. Later when she gets to know you better, there will be other more natural reinforcers to step up for you. :)
 

dumpling98

Walking the driveway
Joined
1/22/19
Messages
173
Location
Romania
Thank you for the great advice guys! I will try using the awesome advise you game me! I will update later if it's anything worth mentioning!
 

Davi

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Concierge
Joined
12/12/17
Messages
1,519
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Real Name
Davi
Lots of great advice here already! I'd just emphasize patience and giving Candy space. 20-some days is really not a long time in bird world. Often, just sitting in the same room while reading a book and letting them know that you're a safe, trustworthy being is enough to get them to change their attitude. Best of luck and do keep us posted!
 

dumpling98

Walking the driveway
Joined
1/22/19
Messages
173
Location
Romania
Guys, it is soo ironic and sad, just when I was thinking everything was going good, the bad happens. While out Candy got scared of the washing machine noises, started frenezy flying, hit a few things, even my head. she landed for a few secs on my hair and started screaming and flew again. When she was finally on ground level she started hissing at me like a snake and barely managed to get get her to step up and get her back in cage. now she hisses at me and doesn't even wanna eat millet.

I feel so sad. 2 steps ahead, 10 behind.
I hope she only shows her cold sholder to me for tonight. Gonna see how she is tomorrow. :( :tiel2:

Worst case scenario, start from zero. I know how, but still sad. ;-;
 

Fuzzy

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/30/10
Messages
4,360
Location
Jersey, Channel Islands
Real Name
Roz
So sorry to hear this. Glad she is not hurt. You'll know to keep her in her cage the next time the washing machine is put on.

Please don't be too down about it. Yes at the beginning when you don't have much history of reinforcement with her, it will be a lot of steps backward. But that is ok. You just have to start gently from the beginning again. Just keep pairing your presence with good things. That might mean not going too close to her for a few days and talking to her from afar.

When my Orange-winged Amazon, Ollie, first arrived, he was not "tame" either. He was terrified of humans. I couldn't even make eye contact without it sending him scurrying to hide behind a toy. About two weeks after his arrival he spooked and shot out of his cage. He crashed into the walls until I had to towel him for his own safety. We went back to zero trust. He remained fearful of me for about a week, then he slowly came round again. I did all I could to maintain his relaxed body language, never hurrying anything. Now he's a very playful and confident bird. Candy will come round too if you are patient. :)
 

Monica

Cruising the avenue
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
5/18/10
Messages
11,263
Location
Hell, NV
Real Name
Monica
When birds freak out, if they are not in any immediate danger, I often recommend leaving them alone to let them calm down because rushing over to save them can result in their fear being transferred to you.

It's okay though, she just needs time to settle. May need to start over or just give her space, but she can come back to where she was at before.


Now, as far as training goes, it certainly sounds like you are asking too much. Turn around for example - don't ask her to do something she doesn't know how to do! Instead, break it down into steps. She'll reach for the target? Great! Reward! She'll turn her head towards the target? Great! Reward. She'll turn head further? Reward! She has to turn her body a little to follow the target? Perfect! Reward! Turn body a little further? Reward! Just keep doing this until she gets all the little steps down that results in the bigger behavior!

Sometimes, if you get stuck on one behavior, move on to another! After you've not done that behavior for a while, sometimes it's easier to pick up and teach it the second time around!


And to me, it sounds like you are otherwise doing great! Training can take time and many repetitions. Some things they'll learn quickly while others will take time and that's okay.
 

dumpling98

Walking the driveway
Joined
1/22/19
Messages
173
Location
Romania
Thank you for sharing your experiences guys! But good news she target trained in the morning and ate some millet from my fingers. And as soon as she finished eating, she came out of the cage on her perch outside. So no traumatized of outside space. yaay

Now I will give her some space like you guys adviced!
 

dumpling98

Walking the driveway
Joined
1/22/19
Messages
173
Location
Romania
Hello guys! I have a good update this time. I've made progress with Candy!

Firstly, she completley let behind her the last incident.

Today I made great progress.

Progress nr 1:
I introduced chop to her made from: jalapeno peppers, sprouted seeds, boiled white beans and cooked brown rice. She took a few bites. I've observed that Candy happily eats any of the items if I hand feed them to her, but she is reluctant to eat them if they are put all together in her food bowl. If the switch to healthier meals is hard, ( I was planning of giving breakfest just chop and rest of the day seeds) can I just give her seeds in her bowl and simply handfeed the other healthy stuff? I'm having a hard time seeing how much a cockatiel needs to eat. How many bites of healthy food would be an okay portion a day? Anyone can give me an idea?

Progress nr 2:
You know how she doesn't eat from middle of my palm? Been feeding her with the palm open, but the food on the fingertips and she eats.

Progress nr 3:
She is still very iffy to step up for me even with millet. Today she surprised me. She was sitting at the edge of the table and I put my hand like a mini platform. Not to step up, just like a continuation of the table, and she totally walked up to my elbow to eat that sweet sweet millet. I didn't even have to coax her. She saw that millet was resting on my arm, without any fear she starts climbing my hand up and down. After that I used the palm, face down, as an obstacle to the millet. She climbed my palm and stayed on it while eating millet.

:omg:
 

Monica

Cruising the avenue
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
5/18/10
Messages
11,263
Location
Hell, NV
Real Name
Monica
It's a good idea to have at least 15-30% (if not more) of their diet to be fresh foods. I know it's kind of hard to gauge that at times!

Sometimes, training is about figuring out a birds little quirks. I guess hers was open palms face up, but face down they are okay! lol And I really think it can help when you make yourself a continuation of whatever they are on, like you did with the table.
 
Top