1. Welcome to Avian Avenue! To view our forum with less advertisments please register with us.
    Memberships are free and it will just take a moment. Click here
  2. This forum is for advice about initial treatment given to your injured/sick bird until a qualified avian veterinarian is available.
    THIS IS NOT MEANT TO REPLACE VET CARE

Urgent African Grey Breathing trouble

Discussion in 'Bird Emergency Highway 911' started by tracey&chyna, 4/11/18.

  1. Lady Jane

    Lady Jane Joyriding the Neighborhood Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran I Can't Stop Posting!

    Joined:
    8/25/12
    Messages:
    15,210
    Location:
    Maryland
    Real Name:
    Dianne
    That was an in depth report and I am sure our people here can understand better. Take a deep breath and try to relax if you can. Prayers are up from us all.
     
    Last edited: 4/12/18
    tracey&chyna and WingedVictory like this.
  2. WingedVictory

    WingedVictory Rollerblading along the road Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

    Joined:
    10/16/09
    Messages:
    1,424
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Real Name:
    Gary
    You are doing great with Chyna! You may need to discuss nebulizing medications with your vet. Some vets but not all can set you up with a nebulizer and medications. A good vet will explain how nebulizing helps get the medications to the respiratory system better and faster. Several here have nebulizers they use for their birds. It is best to have a vet show you hands on first and then you can get additional information from others. Please read Mary Lynns post again on nebulizing, she has some excellent information.
     
  3. Hankmacaw

    Hankmacaw Biking along the boulevard Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

    Joined:
    10/18/09
    Messages:
    8,447
    Location:
    Arizona
    Real Name:
    Mary Lynn Skinner
    Clostridium is the bacteria you were trying to think of that causes bubbles in the poop. There are others that do but clostridium is the most common.

    Using Flagyl (metronizadole) appears that the vet suspects a anaerobic (does not require oxygen) bacteria. That would not be possible in the airsacs - so something else is making them cloudy. Perhaps a fungal infection or a different bacteria. Some protozoas are sensitive to Flagyl as well.

    Unfortumately, Asper tests generally take a week and are not absolutely reliable. There are other tests that can be done and also a culture can be done.

    I don't want to pick an argument with anyone, but you can't hurt your bird with oxygen. My vet has told me that a dozen times whenever I ask him after seeing people being afraid on this forum. Jasper has had two hours of 5 liters of oxygen twice a day for 15 years and my Hank had the same oxygen treatment. Wingedvictory uses oxygen as a therapy for sick bird as does Sarah and Danita there are others on this forum who do as well. It just is not dangerous, especially giving it in a box like we do with our birds.
     
  4. Hankmacaw

    Hankmacaw Biking along the boulevard Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

    Joined:
    10/18/09
    Messages:
    8,447
    Location:
    Arizona
    Real Name:
    Mary Lynn Skinner
    Oh yes - in (I believe) her first CBC she showed a 11,800 WBC (slightly high) count which does indicate an infection, but not whether it's bacterial or fungal.
     
    tracey&chyna likes this.
  5. Macawnutz

    Macawnutz Seriously Nutz! Super Administrator AA Advertising Exec Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

    Joined:
    10/21/11
    Messages:
    26,489
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Real Name:
    Sarah
    My GW macaw is on 5 liters of O2 for 30 minutes twice daily. I have the exact same setup as Hankmacaw.

    Asper tests take 9 days, I know I just did one. Even if negative you still question it.
     
    tracey&chyna and Hankmacaw like this.
  6. enigma731

    enigma731 Jogging around the block Avenue Veteran

    Joined:
    8/23/13
    Messages:
    741
    You can in fact have an anaerobic bacterial infection of the pulmonary system. It sounds paradoxical but it happens. Not needing oxygen doesn't mean oxygen will kill the bacteria.
     
    tracey&chyna likes this.
  7. Lady Jane

    Lady Jane Joyriding the Neighborhood Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran I Can't Stop Posting!

    Joined:
    8/25/12
    Messages:
    15,210
    Location:
    Maryland
    Real Name:
    Dianne
    I know everyone knows this but I put in a reminder for @tracey&chyna to have no smokers in your home when the O2 is being used.
     
    tracey&chyna, Big Blues and iamwhoiam like this.
  8. Love My Zons

    Love My Zons Biking along the boulevard Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Veteran Vendor

    Joined:
    10/16/09
    Messages:
    7,084
    Location:
    Holly Springs NC
    Real Name:
    Claire
    I wish you the very best for your bird and hope you find calming energy as this issue resolves. :hug8:
     
    tracey&chyna and Lady Jane like this.
  9. tracey&chyna

    tracey&chyna Meeting neighbors

    Joined:
    3/19/18
    Messages:
    55
    Location:
    NE Arkansas
    Real Name:
    Tracey
    Another update....she got extremely aggitated and stressed when i tried to get her out today to take her to get the oxygen. I had to stop, I was afraid I was making things worse. I closed her door and let her calm down and then just sat down in the floor at her cage with a plate of goodies and she came down and i was able to feed her some eggs, sweet potato and her bird bread..mostly things that could be mushy. she ate good and even drank the 50/50 water pedialyte. She informed me "mmhmm this is good for you" after she tasted it lol (i always say that to her when its something new lol). She slept alot today. but no tail bobbing. My husband just got home and she came right out..talking up a storm...she is hanging out in there in the steamy bathroom while he showers and hopefully she will eat dinner with him.
    I went and got one of the small tanks the oxygen people brought my aunt for her to use when she leaves home....may be the best solution if hubby is gonna have to be the one to do it early in the morning then at night. She wont get so stressed out. I figured out how to fill it up on her big machine but no idea how to work it, it has a part i had to put on top and a dial with the liter settings 1-5 ...her aid usually works all that for her so she didnt know. I am waiting for the aid to call me now to tell me how to do it. When i got back home, she kept saying "Are you ok, please be ok, we love you chyna" made me tear up because i know I have said that a million times lately! Was glad to hear her talking.
    No return calls from any vets today, i tried to reach out to discuss nebulizing meds and get some straight answers about her diagnosis. I am at the moment looking for yet another vet but it seems there just aren't many here. The first one was the only certified avian vet, then the second one was listed on aav.org... there is one more on aav.org but everytime I call he isnt there. Maybe this is when i hold my breath and wait on these last few results to come in. Not sure how long it will take him to get the culture back he sent. And i tracked the sample they had me send to the lab to test for asper, they got it this morning before noon. But like yall said...they are unreliable so i dont know if its gonna matter what it says.
    I'll keep updating and hoe to have some sort of news soon.
    Thank you all for your help and kind words, you don't know how much you all are appreciated!
     
  10. saroj12

    saroj12 Ripping up the road Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

    Joined:
    10/15/09
    Messages:
    43,539
    Location:
    fl
    Real Name:
    saroj
    So glad to hear the good report!! Awww so sweet she was repeating what you said about are you okay? please be okay, Please ask your vet about the settings, not the aide. My vet has the oxygen cylinder setup too and she has specific settings for the various animals and birds she treats.
     
  11. Macawnutz

    Macawnutz Seriously Nutz! Super Administrator AA Advertising Exec Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

    Joined:
    10/21/11
    Messages:
    26,489
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Real Name:
    Sarah
    If the asper test is positive you have your answer, at least that's what you start treating. If it's negative than we say it's unreliable.
     
    Hankmacaw likes this.
  12. WingedVictory

    WingedVictory Rollerblading along the road Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

    Joined:
    10/16/09
    Messages:
    1,424
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Real Name:
    Gary
    Hankmacaw, tracey&chyna and Lady Jane like this.
  13. Hankmacaw

    Hankmacaw Biking along the boulevard Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

    Joined:
    10/18/09
    Messages:
    8,447
    Location:
    Arizona
    Real Name:
    Mary Lynn Skinner
    "When i got back home, she kept saying "Are you ok, please be ok, we love you chyna" made me tear up because i know I have said that a million times lately! Was glad to hear her talking."

    The little rats sure know how to tear us up, Don't they?
     
  14. WingedVictory

    WingedVictory Rollerblading along the road Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

    Joined:
    10/16/09
    Messages:
    1,424
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Real Name:
    Gary
    How is Chyna doing today? You can discontinue the electrolytes once you bird is eating and drinking normal and not in distress.
     
    Hankmacaw likes this.
  15. camelotshadow

    camelotshadow Joyriding the Neighborhood Celebirdy of the Month Avenue Veteran

    Joined:
    11/8/11
    Messages:
    16,875
    Location:
    S California
    :angel1::angel2::angel3::angel6:
     
  16. Hankmacaw

    Hankmacaw Biking along the boulevard Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

    Joined:
    10/18/09
    Messages:
    8,447
    Location:
    Arizona
    Real Name:
    Mary Lynn Skinner
    Hi Tracey - how's that Chyna doing? An update would really be appreciated.
     
    Lady Jane likes this.
  17. tracey&chyna

    tracey&chyna Meeting neighbors

    Joined:
    3/19/18
    Messages:
    55
    Location:
    NE Arkansas
    Real Name:
    Tracey
    Good Morning guys. Sorry for no update yesterday. Wasnt sure what was going on. Yesterday morning she ate her oatmeal pretty good for my husband. He is having to feed her by hand. She already has hormonal tendancys with him so I am really afraid this will set her off, but if thats the only way she will eat, then thats what we have to do. She didnt eat but 1 nutriberry that I saw all day. She decided yesterday that they were better fit for scratching her head with them. Most of the day she was just still, slept and slept alot. She has a "toy box" which is where i make her up a new conrtainer of foraging toys and things everyday. She knows 10am is when i get it all together and if I am late she lets me know. She never made a peep yesterday. I fixed her some veggies and stuff around lunch time....she picked a little but for the most part...didnt want much to do with it. She did drink the pedialyte still yesterday. So I was just upset thinking "now she is gonna quit eating" She hates pellets but i have harrisons high potency so i soaked them in some juice and made a mush to see if i could slide that past her...nope. So I worried all afternoon, just watching her sleep. The husband came home and she was a totally different bird. She came right out, ate sweet potato for him, some brown rice, and some bird bread. She is really making me look crazy! Also, when it was just her and I..she was unusually mean/aggressive. like would lunge when i tried to change her bowls and fluff up..I handed her a favorite foot toy and she snatched it hard and threw it. I know I am not her favorite, but this was a lil over the top for her! not sure if this is hormonal as well. Anyway, he is off work today...and all in her world is right. She ate breakfast, and is over there by him preening and chattering right now.

    On to the vets I heard from.. The avian vet I took her to the other day called. Said he is still waiting on cultures but Asper came back negative(still not any relief there) but not sure how they got that so quick. I did pay to overnight it and they got it thurs morning, but I thought it took longer. I asked him about the oxygen settings I should use...he told me "thats a little extreme" I just said ok, my bird has breathing troubles, i have to help her. I let it go, I was already expecting to hear from my regular vet who i knew could get me what i needed. I also asked him about an antifungal. he said she didnt need it. I told him I was concerned with her being on antibiotics, a strong one at that, and not having anything to combat yeast. He said he didnt think that would be a problem. omg. i just had no words. I wanted to call the association of avian vets or whatever it is and ask just what requirements allows a vet to be on their list. I know I am angry and upset and just slap crazy by now.

    Then my normal vet..i would trust him with my bird even though hes not avian, he is a very special man. Anyway, he called, I told him what had been going on, he gave me the settings he would use for oxygen, which is 2 liters for 1 to 2 hrs. He is about to be out for surgery himself, but he said we have to get chyna some proper help...he is making some calls and trying to get us a plan of action together. He wants to see the results of the cultures when they come back. Maybe he could consult with an avian that is good. I dont think I could make her travel much further...it really stresses her when we go 2hrs..which is really both ways 4hrs in the car.

    I am going to town today to get her some things. I am sure she will be happy as a lark just her and dad. Is there anything you guys think I need to have on hand? I want to go find something to help her put some weight back on. Do you all have any suggestions? And maybe something to fend of yeast since we dont have an antifungal? Possibly a humidifier but I have always been afraid of those(mold and stuff) unless you all think they are safe? The steamy bathroom may be helping, is why I thought about a humidifier. I just didnt want to make things worse if they arent safe. I also coulnt find saline solution the other day...what is that nomally for? like where would i find that in the store. I asked at the store and they took me to the contact lense section lol. Wondering if i did that with the oxygen if it would keep it from being so drying? I feel like I am in that mode where you go buy 1 of everything in the world and throw it all at the problem and hope one sticks.

    Again, I wish I could hug you all!! :hug8:
     
  18. tracey&chyna

    tracey&chyna Meeting neighbors

    Joined:
    3/19/18
    Messages:
    55
    Location:
    NE Arkansas
    Real Name:
    Tracey
    ohh..her droppings look nornal and I havent seen any respiratory distress in a few days now ...so I try to think thats a plus, but I also know they are masters at hiding illness so...i still worry just as much
     
  19. Hankmacaw

    Hankmacaw Biking along the boulevard Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

    Joined:
    10/18/09
    Messages:
    8,447
    Location:
    Arizona
    Real Name:
    Mary Lynn Skinner
    She is probably feeling better due to the excellent nursing she is getting. LOL - she doesn't like you much. Particularly when you come between her LOVE and her. Typical of many, many parrots.

    All you need for the humidifier on the oxygen concentrator is distilled water. The saline is for the nebulizer. Sometimes they sell nasal washes in the drug store and if you will read the label, they are 100% .9% saline solution that they charge $9/10 for a cup of it.

    You can get them from Amazon (be sure to use Amazon Smile and contribute to a parrot sanctuary).
    https://smile.amazon.com/Modudose-S...23720413&sr=1-5&keywords=saline+solution&th=1

    Here is .9% (I've had the decimal point in the wrong place);
    https://smile.amazon.com/Sterile-Sa...rd_wg=UrlNG&psc=1&refRID=6D1MM98DD33M1QFG1CFY

    It is definitely a great sign that she isn't showing signs of respiratory distress - that means she isn't having extreme breathing problems like she was.

    Your regular vet sounds like the best of the bunch that you have been seeing. There are a number of great vets that your vet can consult with and we can help you identify them, if you would like.
     
  20. tracey&chyna

    tracey&chyna Meeting neighbors

    Joined:
    3/19/18
    Messages:
    55
    Location:
    NE Arkansas
    Real Name:
    Tracey
    Oh! thank you Mary for that amazon link, i will definitely use it! I have a portable tank at the moment, no concentrator yet....was the best option for us at the moment since we are having to do it at 4 am before he goes to work...and my aunt is still sleeping then. It will work until I can get one here of our own. So was wondering if you cold nebulize saline or even distilled water at the same time as oxygen or after..to help with how the oxygen can dry you out? And what are your thoughts on humidifiers to run in the room with her? good or bad idea?

    And LOL yes she definitely loves him. Slightly jealous! LOL She loved me for the first 5 years, then turned at the drop of a hat. LOL
     
    Sarahmoluccan and saroj12 like this.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)