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  2. This forum is for advice about initial treatment given to your injured/sick bird until a qualified avian veterinarian is available.
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Urgent African Grey Breathing trouble

Discussion in 'Bird Emergency Highway 911' started by tracey&chyna, 4/11/18.

  1. Hankmacaw

    Hankmacaw Biking along the boulevard Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    Oxygen Box_1_1.JPG What you would be getting is an oxygen concentrator. NO bottles involved. It take the air out of the room and concentrates it into 93% pure oxygen. If you buy from the place I listed - they have not asked me for a prescription.

    Then you would need a small plastic container, like from walmart and run the hose from the machine through a hole in the container. Don't worry about over oxygenating your bird - the container will leak enough oxygen that that could not happen. This is what the concentrator looks like.
    Devilbiss 525ds Oxygen Concentrator
     
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  2. tracey&chyna

    tracey&chyna Meeting neighbors

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    ok this makes sense. so i am gonna cut a hole big enough for the hose and put the lid on it...do you have any holes in the lid? does she not suffocate? or get too hot? i just spoke to my aunt and she actually has one that she says doesnt use tanks...so it must be this concentrator. How long do you leave her in there? I am wondering if i could take her and her box to my aunts and use that one until mine comes in? i feel like she needs this like yesterday.
    About the nebulizer...I do have a nebulizer for myself, but I read somewhere they need a smaller micron..is this true? and saline solution..where do you get that? gosh i feel like i should have been prepared for something to happen, but i guess i never imagined her being sick. :( she is finally sleeping, i think i will take a nap near her cage. I am mentally exhausted. Thank you all so much...i will check back in the morning.
     
  3. Lady Jane

    Lady Jane Cruising the avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    Hope you get some good sleep. You are doing a good job of trying to save her. I am praying for you both.
     
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  4. WingedVictory

    WingedVictory Rollerblading along the road Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    Marry Lynn has given very good advice! One other thing I can think of is you getting some children's pedialyte (plain) mix 50/50 with water and offer to your bird. Gatorade mixed 50/50 with water will work in a pinch. The electrolytes in the solution will perk your bird up and help with dehydration. Hydration is very important to a sick bird. Ask your vet about prescribing antifungal.

    You may need to get some small pipettes to offer liquid and hand feeding formula. Place drops of liquid in the birds lower beak or on tongue drop by drop if the bird is not drinking on it's own.
     
    Last edited: 4/11/18
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  5. enigma731

    enigma731 Sprinting down the street

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    I'm confused. You've mentioned that the vets don't know what's going on with her, but in your vet's email, he says she has pulmonary fibrosis. That is her diagnosis, is it not? It sounds like he has diagnosed her with a chronic progressive lung disease and has given you one treatment option (the albuterol) while researching others. He is unsurprised that she is continuing to have episodes because he has diagnosed her with a chronic disease. Unless I'm misreading something??
     
  6. tracey&chyna

    tracey&chyna Meeting neighbors

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    She has gotten up and eaten some oatmeal and had her baytril, then she ate some nutriberries...which she didnt want to do yesterday. I am going to get her hospital cage set up today, question...the heating pads that we have all shut off on their own. do they even still make the ones that will stay on? Right now I have it pretty warm in the house, uncomfortable for the real people, but she seems content, no shivering.

    winged..thank you i will pick up some today! I wasnt sure if they could have that or not.

    enigma..i just noticed that email said that. It is the first I have heard of it, he never mentioned that before, just said she had air sacullitis in her lower air sacs. we went to that one several times and never any mention of that before. I wonder if he has confused her with another patient, or else just didnt tell me before...which is weird and not good either way! I am feeling real leery of these vets right now, and i really hate to feel that way.
     
  7. Lady Jane

    Lady Jane Cruising the avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    Saculliti is basically pneumonia. It does not make sense that the vet would not prescribe supplemental O2. Enigma you are not the only one who is confused. Are there avian vets you can take your bird to other than the one who is giving you advice now?
     
  8. enigma731

    enigma731 Sprinting down the street

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    Saculitis literally means inflammation of the air sacs. The cause could be infectious, toxic, autoimmune, etc. It sounds like they're trying to rule out bacterial right now with the antibiotics
     
  9. Lady Jane

    Lady Jane Cruising the avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    Yes I looked up the definition to be sure my understanding is correct.
     
  10. Hankmacaw

    Hankmacaw Biking along the boulevard Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    I'm not so sure that the Dr. actually diagnosed your bird with pulmonary fibrosis. Hank had pulmonary fibrosis after many years of fighting Asper and various opportunistic bacterial infections, but we didn't know that until a lung biopsy and histology was performed on him.has fibrosis. Here is what the vet said - not directly that your bird has fibrosis. You need to get that straightened out with your vet.
    "We typically use it in animals to treat pulmonary hypertension, but it may have some benefit with pulmonary fibrosis. "

    No your bird will not suffocate - she will be getting highly concentrated O2 while in the box (she wouldn't suffocate anyway, those boxes are leaky). The oxygen comes out of the tubing quite cold so no possibility that she will get overheated.

    You can get ampules of .09% saline solution at a pharmacy or even bottles (much cheaper). No need for it to be absolutely sterile. You should use your nebulizer for her even if it doesn't have the tiniest microns of mist. If you have one of the major brands or a Devilbiss it will be fine.

    I would take your bird and a box to your Aunt's and start her on O2 today and start her on O2 therapy. One hour will be fine. Be sure to give her fluids (like Gary said) - O2 is very dry. Your Aunt may even have a humidifier bottle for her machine.

    Careful constant nursing care can give your baby that leg up that she needs to get over the hump.

     
  11. Hankmacaw

    Hankmacaw Biking along the boulevard Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    BTW what is her name and 20 years old is just barely middle age for an AG. She has many good years ahead of her - with or without fibrosis.
     
  12. jax7271

    jax7271 Meeting neighbors

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    I agree....I have a 19 yr old TAG and she seems pretty young still......just know that what you are doing (and you are doing a lot) is really great...information is so valuable and there is a lot of knowledge on this forum....all the best to you as you take care of your girl
     
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  13. WingedVictory

    WingedVictory Rollerblading along the road Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    Good Morning, great to see your bird is eating and taking medication. A couple of questions may help us understand what these vets are trying to do. I assume the second vet prescribing Baytril did so after looking at the chart from the first vet correct? Did he have the blood work to look at? Did either vet mention which parameters of the blood work was high? What was the WBC? The Baytril medication, was the first dose at the vets office oral or injection? Was the first dose a loading dose? What is the Baytril dosage in mg prescribed? Did either vet explain how to nurse your bird with additional heat or hydration? Did either ask you to purchase hand feeding formula in case the bird has a hard time with its normal food?

    The Baytril was a good first choice for medication. From your last post it sounds like the bird is responding to the Baytril positively. Please keep your bird warm, hydrated and make sure it is eating enough. A good gauge on eating is to watch your birds poops to make sure they are normal in size and shape.

    The cloudy x-ray could be bacterial or fungal. You are treating for bacterial now with the Baytril. You may need a antifungal medication to keep the yeast at bay should your bird be on antibiotics for a long period of time. Should your bird have a fungal infection such as asper or yeast you will be needing a antifungal medication. Next time you go to a vet make them explain everything in terms you can understand on what they are doing and why.

    Please keep us updated. Your birds name, age and weight would be nice to have.

    We are not vets here but we do have many experienced bird keepers.
     
  14. Danita

    Danita Ripping up the road Super Administrator Chief Beak Avenue Veteran

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    Oh god, that doesn't sound good.
    I hope you get on the right track and find a vet that you are confident in and treats your parrot correctly :(
     
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  15. saroj12

    saroj12 Ripping up the road Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran I Can't Stop Posting!

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    CALL YOUR VET FIRST to find out what setting to put the cylinder on. People setting would be dangerous. Too much oxygen is deadly too. Oxygen toxicity - Wikipedia
     
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  16. tracey&chyna

    tracey&chyna Meeting neighbors

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    im sorry guys, i may be making things confusing and possibly leaving things out. now that i am a little more calm I will strart from the beginning.
    Her Name is Chyna, She has been with me since she was weaned. At one time she was my bird, but she ultimately chose my husband(this started around 5 yrs of age). I really thinks she hates me, but thats ok I still love her! He has to do most of the handling with her. I am only allowed the occassional head scratch, and of course give her food and treats.
    Her normal weight for most of her life has been around 400g.
    The end of feb/first of march I contacted an avian vet when I noticed she was looking smaller and my scales here were saying 390g. Nothing else strange was going on. No respritory issue that I could see, she still ate and drank as normal. Her droppings were normal. She still played and talked all day. He said since everything else was normal to increase her food some and see if that helps and that it could be a fluctuation because her crop may be full when I weigh her sometimes and vice versa. eh...i weigh her at the same time of day when i weigh her (after big morning poop,before breakfast), so I wasnt sure this could be the case. But Avian vets are supposed to know right? So I said ok.
    Fast forward to Friday March 2 (10pm) I notice her tracheal area rapidly going in and out. I paniced, we got her out and moved her to the steamy bathroom because thats all I could think to do. In the meantime I called every hospital and vet...no one was on call that would see a bird. I was devestated because I had read that once you can see they are sick..alot of times its bad. So I cried all night thinking she was gonna die and there was nothing I could do. I felt terrible for having her and not being able to get her help. I should of researched 20 years ago and found out that you are out of luck in this area if you have a sick bird in the middle of the night. This was gonna be my fault that this baby died. Well the next morning nothing strange was happening. My regular vet called to see if I had gotten her anywhere(I call them in the middle of the night to please tell me where I could go). I told them everything was a dead end. His office got on the phone to find me someone...all deads ends...noone is working or on call for birds until Monday morning (March 5) I left here at 4am that morning with her and this dr ran blood work, gram, and xrays (she weighed 393g this day). This is when i got the diagnosis of air sacullitis and even though he said blood count looked good he wanted to start her on antibiotics..he gave an injection of baytril and dexa...something..here is the things they did:
    [​IMG]

    We did the medication and went back in a week. Nothing strange happened during the week of waiting. She "seemed" normal. Except for her droppings, I was seeing alot of bubbles and alot of urine. I took him pictures of the droppings...the bubbles I saw had me concerned with infection (starts with a c? cant remember the name of it) He said no it wasnt that and I asked if possible the antibiotics could cause this? he said no. but wasnt alarmed. He discontinued the antibiotic( a week early) and had her take flagyl. Her weight was down to 382g. This vet said the same as the one i spoke to about weight around the end of feb....she probably had a full crop blah blah when we were in a week before. She had breakfast before we left home for this appointment vs the other one. So idk. here is what they did that day:
    [​IMG]

    Almost one week later 3/19 is the first time I witnessed the tail bob and a very raspy breathing. She also began to take her foot and pull at her beak and shake it aggresively. i immediatley emailed him the video and told him what was goin on. Also her droppings were still not right so I sent more pictures. In my mind the tail bob would make me say "get her here asap!" but no he said she probably had something go up her choana into her sinuses and wanted me to continue with extra humidity,albuterol, and metacam and drop saline drops in here ceres (i did not do the drops, i was not comfortable with the idea and i was afraid). So into the steamy bathroom we went and gave her the meds as instructed. she settled down and was ok (to the naked eye) for now.
    Other things that have started happening in the last month..I have mentioned to every doctor that noone seems worried about:
    She still does the occassional beak pulling, she twitches her wings alot before she goes to sleep....like every 30 sec for an hour at least.
    She twitches her head sometimes... just a quick jig.
    I feel she is over preening...her tail tips and wing tips look ragged.
    She makes a yawning motion alot
    She sometimes (randomly) has a squeaky, hoarse voice...they say its mimic...i dont think it is.

    Then that takes us to where I met you all yesterday. I apologize for the length of this post and apologize for being so confusing...my mind is all over the place right now.
    I am running out of options for avian vets. All of these car trips cant be helping her, they stress her out terribly. I said to her on the way yesterday, "maybe this will be the one that helps us Chyna, just please hang on I am trying so hard to help you."
    I am not sure about this one either. At least I have the Asper test...I overnighted it so they would get it today. I hope to know something soon. I have her xrays too if anyone is interested.

    Thank you all so much for your help...I felt alone with this until I posted here.
     
  17. iamwhoiam

    iamwhoiam Joyriding the Neighborhood Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Veteran I Can't Stop Posting!

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    Regarding confusion with diagnosis. Give the vet a call and get that information clarified. Also, as per @saroj12, check with vet regarding oxygen and settings. Hope there is a good solution that will help her. Let us know about the results of the Asper test. Did they do any cultures because all I see listed are gram stains?
     
    Last edited: 4/12/18
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  18. tracey&chyna

    tracey&chyna Meeting neighbors

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    the new vet we went to yesterday said he did cultures, one to send off to see what was goin on with her, then one for me to send off to check for asper. I overnighted it so hopefully they dont take too long.
     
  19. iamwhoiam

    iamwhoiam Joyriding the Neighborhood Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Veteran I Can't Stop Posting!

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    Cultures should be more informative than gram stains.
     
  20. Danita

    Danita Ripping up the road Super Administrator Chief Beak Avenue Veteran

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    Don't be sorry, just looking at that video is distressing, I couldn't imagine if it was in my home.
     
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