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Advice- 3 month (15 week) old Macaw **Sad Update**

Fia Baby

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I agree - the store is at least equally responsible. If they had taken responsible care of this baby from day one, this could probably have been avoided altogether.
 

ArcticFox

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I do agree that the pet store is at fault to a degree. But I also recognize that if I was to educate myself, knowing nothing, going to the breeder seems like the best idea. But there was basic issues, baby wasn't used to being weighed at all for example and they have no weight history for her. Further, it seems to be common sense that one feeding for any creature isn't enough. Employees could have assumed she was eating throughout the day. I do expect any shop caring for animals would wish to employee those with critical thinking skills. But many of the employees were young. Again, I fault mainly the breeder as I feel it is their responsibility to 1) feed and wean a baby and 2) place the healthy baby where it will be appropriately cared for- in both ways they failed.

Tonight's Koko update:
Updated labwork- kidney function is still showing below normal levels, but they expect that to take some time to come back up. She's gained some weight, but not as much as they would have liked. I'm sorry, I don't have numbers.

Current vet is taking her day's 'weekend' and leaving Koko in the care of another avian vet in the same office. Koko has a tube placed currently to facilitate feedings. They initially placed it when she came in and have thus left it as they have a good number of emergency cases leaving their time somewhat spread thin.

She was going to come home tonight but the initial vet played hardball with the pet shop, threatening to take the case to some lawyers (she was bluffing, sadly). They were able to get authorization to continue care until Saturday. It's not required really- she is strong enough to go home but it's somewhat of a situation of- 'if they'll pay for it, we want to watch her as long as we can just in case'. By the time we pick her up, she'll have spent more time at the vet then in our care.

They did xray's, viral and bacterial testing as well as ran a few more basic genetic tests looking for any underlying conditions- all came back negative. Her only issue appears to be she was half starved to death. Neurological function appears normal- that was a concern as her blood sugar levels got so low that when they first took her back she was showing abnormal neurological actions but it appears that no permanent damage has been done.

The vet did mention that if the pet store pulls out of her care, but she still requires care they would continue at no cost to us but we would have to sign an agreement not to leave her in the care of the pet store at any point within her lifespan- something I would gladly do. They understand that we did just move and money is somewhat tight and while we didn't complain or mention it except in passing while talking about our past rescue work, I am very thankful for the offer.

Her kidney markers may never fully recover, she may always be on the slightly abnormal side of kidney function so that may have to be watched. Her growth could also be stunted due to the possible length of time this has gone on. Lastly, she may be late to wean. Otherwise, we are looking at a complete recovery.

We are going to see if their office has calmed down tomorrow and maybe they will allow us to visit Koko for a bit.

Current vet has given us updates twice a day. The lady covering for her may only update us once a day as Koko is now in the clear.
 

TWR

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Thanks for the great update. Your AV sounds fantastic - so very caring.
 

camelotshadow

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Horrible starving that baby like that. :sad4:
Cruel demented money hungry pitiful excuse for a human being.

I got sick reading it for fear she would not make it.

I'm glad she was able to recover & hopefully will have not too many long term effects.

:heart:
 

Macawnutz

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Take this time to research what you are going to be feeding her longterm. Talk to your vets about diet. IMO she needs a pellet available at all times, whether she is eating them or not. I would throw out what you currently have for her as from what you said of it it's garbage for her.
 

ArcticFox

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We'll talk to the vet more when we go in office. she does want us to be careful about stressing her in the next few weeks so she recommended pellets be slowly introduced as Koko was very fearful of them in office. She wants us to keep what we have but only as a supplement to the fruits, vegetables and grains while we watch closely for stress.

Morning update :
Kidney makers are still off but closers to normal. she gained a few more grams since yesterday morning. But the regurgitation is back. All tests for infection American back normal. only answer some that her body is relearning how to process food and that her crop is small.

We got the all clear to go in and see her- but we can't handle her. that's okay- we just want to see her doing better with our own eyes. kinda shakes you when you watch them go down hill like that.

Plan is still to keep her tI'll Saturday. keeping busy in the meantime.

The office that took her has been amazing and talked to us every step of the way. she will continue going to see them for her regular check ups.
 

Hankmacaw

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I'm sure you are too young to remember - I'm not - but they had to bring the starving holocaust prisoners back from starvation very slowly and very carefully. Many didn't make it. You are lucky with your Koko she was starving to death and was past the stage that just putting gobs of food in front of her would do any good. Her liver may have been damaged, but livers will regenerate and there are good support medication for the liver. Kidneys don't regenerate, but a person or a bird can survive and thrive with very little of their kidneys.

It really sounds as if you have a good vet office.
 

ArcticFox

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While I'm only 25 and thus the horrors of the Holocaust were well before my time- I'm very familiar with those horrors from an academic standpoint. I feel it's each generation's responsibility of be aware of the horrors humanity is capable of inflicting on ourselves and each other. I got weird looks for my book collection in high school.

Her liver function shows normal now- surprisingly. it's just the kidney function that's low- but only moderately so. she has her youth as an advantage. But it will be months of slow and steady progress to get her weight to normal.
 

Macawnutz

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We'll talk to the vet more when we go in office. she does want us to be careful about stressing her in the next few weeks so she recommended pellets be slowly introduced as Koko was very fearful of them in office. She wants us to keep what we have but only as a supplement to the fruits, vegetables and grains while we watch closely for stress.


If she is not eating on her own then they will be introduced slowly. Keep them in her cage at all times so she is used to seeing them.
 

Fia Baby

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I don't think she'll be stunted at this point in her development if her early development was normal. If she does wind up with reduced kidney function, you may need to modify her diet. It sounds like you have a good vet to talk with about that. It's nice that you're hesitant to blame the shop too much, but in my opinion, anyone taking in baby parrots to handfeed and sell should know that those parrots will need supportive handfeeding due to the stress of transitions. Given your bird's age and species, this should be basic knowledge. Babies will beg for food to a point, and then they will stop. At that point they may not eat even when presented with food. And weaning - it's also pretty basic and current knowledge that babies need to be well-fed in order to start experimenting with eating on their own. And all this information should be made perfectly clear to new owners, and on-going support should be offered. They really did a VERY INADEQUATE job when they sold her.

Given your baby's recent eating experiences and the fact that she's being tube-fed right now, I think you may need to work with her very diligently to get her feeding herself again. She may have some re-learning to do.
 

greys4u

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and one more thing, you will have a velcro bird! She knows she has a good mommy.........
 

ArcticFox

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They think her growth could be stunted as she's small framed now and we have no real way to know how long this has been going on.

She wasn't eating independently before this- only syringe handfeeding. So we are expecting a lot of work in that area, but hopefully it won't be too bad once her weight starts recovering more.
 

SpecialistElbru

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Vet is still going after the breeder. She has a name but is choosing not to disclose it to me, wanting us to focus on our baby and leave the vet to her. She has contacted the authorities and I have released Koko's records for them to use in going after the breeder. Sadly, best case is that they find birds in poor health, in horrible conditions, the breeder gets fined and their birds taken away. If they find the birds in somewhat decent conditions and not obviously in horrible health the breeder may not receive anything but a scare.

I' m happy to hear the baby is doing much better. Even though the breeder can be held responsible for a lot of this, I still think the pet store shares a huge part of it. First off they accepted the bird from the breeder without thinking of the health of the bird, secondly, a pet store (management and employees they enlist and train) should be responsible for having enough knowledge to manage the birds (or anything else) that transfers to their care. After accepting the bird it falls to the store and if the store has issues with the breeder its between those two to haggle out who pays for any medical bills you have.

All of this depends on the jurisdiction where this took place. In reading earlier post, it is my understanding that ArcticFox lives in Nevada. It is amazing to what degree this can very from state to state within the US. That is the main reason that I feel there needs to be a standard for the care of birds that is developed by vets and people that are familiar with birds and not by activist.
 

ArcticFox

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Sad news.
This is the final Update.

Koko passed away at around 1pm. They are trying to get authorization from the store to perform a bird autopsy (forgive me, the word for an animal one escapes me at this time) as they are not sure as to why. The regurgitation was off and on and they feel that she may have had an underlying condition that was exasperated by all of this. We are heartbroken but understand that the vet did the best they could. It is believed that her issues steamed from before the store had her in her care.

We are going to stay our goodbyes then speak with the store. thank you all for your advice and we'll wishes.
 

greys4u

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I am so so sorry for your loss. :sad7:
 

Macawnutz

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So very sorry.
 

Hankmacaw

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Very, very sorry - the poor baby never had a chance.
 

expressmailtome

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I am very sorry for your loss.
 

sunnysmom

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I'm very sorry. :sorrow:
 
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