• Welcome to Avian Avenue! To view our forum with less advertisments please register with us.
    Memberships are free and it will just take a moment. Click here

ABV positive, very sick

roxynoodle

Cruising the avenue
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
I Can't Stop Posting!
Joined
8/5/12
Messages
14,319
Location
Ohio
Real Name
Audrey
She should be easy to towel if you do it snuggly. I'm surprised your vet has trouble with this (I'm not saying this as a "diss" on you). If you properly towel a bird. Thsy cannot move. Kinda like a mentally crazy person in those white jackets. The towel needs to be snug but not suffocating. So if she is able to squirm, she isn't snug enough. But take care when doing this if you're unsure as you can make it too tight.

Tube feeding is really easy once you know how to do it and can restrain snuggly.

I just worry that if you aren't able to tube feed her how is she getting enough to eat.
Merlin can dislodge the tube from her crop! Smart little brat that she is. Last time she was gavage fed one of the vet techs said, "Ohhh, you're good."

I smile and say, "Is she being good? That's wonderful!"

She giggles and says, "Nooo, she's so smart she got the tube out! That's not something I'm used to a bird being able to do."

Tube feeding isn't always easy I guess.
 

jmfleish

Cruising the avenue
Vendor
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/19/09
Messages
13,323
Location
Madison, WI
Real Name
Jen
Debbie,

I am so sorry that you are going through all this. The only thing I can truly offer you is my thoughts and prayers. There is a group on Yahoo for PPD positive information and people who are going through this that you might find helpful. It's fairly slow right now but if you have questions, people do answer them. It's called living with PDD and the URL for it is livingwithpdd : Living with PDD Support It's sponsored by the Avian Health Network and is a support group for people that have birds that are PPD positive.
 

allison

Biking along the boulevard
Avenue Veteran
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/19/09
Messages
9,630
Location
California
Real Name
Allison
Roudybush makes a pellet for birds with PDD. You have to get it through your vet though. Maybe you can have them order some for you.
Roudybush Direct
 

allison

Biking along the boulevard
Avenue Veteran
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/19/09
Messages
9,630
Location
California
Real Name
Allison
Also, make sure the crop is completely empty before tube feeding. It's easy to aspirate them if you fill their crops too much.
 

macawsmom

Moving in
Joined
7/12/13
Messages
7
Oh, I did ask my vet why Metacam and not Celebrex and she said that now they think Metacam is better.
I am trying to check this out with the pdd group and a second-opinion vet (who is off today I think and didn't return my call yesterday).
Anyone here know for sure?
Metacam comes in a ready to use liquid and Celebrex only comes in capsules and would have to formulated, so that makes metacam easier.
“The use of NSAIDS, specifically Celecoxib, is effective for relief of inflammatory processes…including in the gastrointestinal tract.” Dr. Robert D Dahlhausen
 

mrstweet

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
1/25/11
Messages
4,233
Location
NW Florida
Real Name
Amanda
I think Ginger said everything I feel right now. I am so devastated for you. The toweling will get easier. If you want to, take a break before it becomes too much for her and do the syringe after a short break. Then towel for snuggles so they know it always ends on a good note. :hug8:
 

macawsmom

Moving in
Joined
7/12/13
Messages
7
Debbie,

I am so sorry that you are going through all this. The only thing I can truly offer you is my thoughts and prayers. There is a group on Yahoo for PPD positive information and people who are going through this that you might find helpful. It's fairly slow right now but if you have questions, people do answer them. It's called living with PDD and the URL for it is livingwithpdd : Living with PDD Support It's sponsored by the Avian Health Network and is a support group for people that have birds that are PPD positive.
I am not trying to down any group because the good Lord knows that we all need words of encouragement when dealing with difficult situations but when you read the sites FAQ's all of their sources are old, there is no new or current information.
 

Bokkapooh

Ripping up the road
Avenue Veteran
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/18/09
Messages
25,464
Location
Pacific Northwest
Real Name
Mercedez
What type of tubes does your vet use Audrey? I've only gavage fed by using the extenders on syringes. Its 1-3" and connects onto the syringe. Its a solid piece and if you're holding the syringe a bird shouldn't be able to get it out. Its solid plastic (unflimsy. They even have metal ones. I believe the tubing is called "oral gavage" tubes.

Edit: it doesn't have to be so big that it goes into the crop, only past the wind pipe/beginning of crop. So a 3"gavage tube should suffice or even be more than enough as long as its past the windpipe.
 
Last edited:

macawsmom

Moving in
Joined
7/12/13
Messages
7
Roudybush makes a pellet for birds with PDD. You have to get it through your vet though. Maybe you can have them order some for you.
Roudybush Direct
I know that society has been conditioned to believe that pellets are the 'best' food for birds but that simple is not true. Read the back of any package and it will tell you what is in it or I should say what was in it at manufacturing time. Manufactured or processed foods are NOT a complete and balanced anything. When was the last time that you had the pelleted food that you feed analyzed? Pellets are 'fortified' with certain vitamins mostly man made where as whole unprocessed foods have vitamins, minerals, proteins, and amino acids that scientist have not discovered.
 

jmfleish

Cruising the avenue
Vendor
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/19/09
Messages
13,323
Location
Madison, WI
Real Name
Jen
I am not trying to down any group because the good Lord knows that we all need words of encouragement when dealing with difficult situations but when you read the sites FAQ's all of their sources are old, there is no new or current information.
This is a support group of people living with the disease. You can't get any closer than that to it.
 

MommyBird

Biking along the boulevard
Avenue Veteran
Mayor of the Avenue
Joined
10/23/09
Messages
6,814
Location
Colorado
Real Name
Debbie
Debbie, I haven't ignored you or forgot about you, I just wanted to sit and mull over this one, and after spending yesterday and last night pondering, I came to the conclusion that I got nothing I can offer you as far as practical advise. This is a great weight on your shoulders and it's going to be a tough one to carry. You and they are also going through a learning curve, which in and of itself is stressful. Just the hygiene requirements are daunting. I'm grateful that Macawmom came on to help. What I can tell you is that I will be praying for you and your babies. I also think that you should have a heart to heart with them, explain why you want them to eat and how important it is, and also ask them to let you know when they've had enough of the meds, the vet, the stress, etc., There comes a time when quality of life trumps quantity. They need to feel your love and there should be times when you guys can just sit and "be" without a struggle. And there are some healing energy meditations you can do. I posted this on the Sat the budgie's thread and I will share it here as well. Hold your hands up palms together about 1/2" to 1" apart. In about 30 seconds to a minute you should be able to feel the energy. Once you can recognize what it's supposed to feel like you can do the same thing to your babies. Hold your hand or hands 1/2" to 1" above the spot that needs healing, don't touch them, then focus all your love and healing attention on that area. It can't hurt them, and I can tell you that love is the most powerful force in the Universe. We are here for you,
Ginger
Thanks Ginger. We always have enjoyed sitting together. I am a little frantic lately trying to handle everything, and sometimes I get frantic now about just that spending slow time enjoying each other. It is bittersweet as I love the little things they say and do.
I just love them period. That is why the grief is so huge I guess.
I have always talked to them a lot. Chico is my goto guy when I want somebody to talk back and have a conversation. Sometimes I go for days when my birds are the only ones I talk to, so discussing things with them is quite natural to me.
And I do keep thinking about that quality of life point, unfortunately at 3am so I can't sleep.
 

MommyBird

Biking along the boulevard
Avenue Veteran
Mayor of the Avenue
Joined
10/23/09
Messages
6,814
Location
Colorado
Real Name
Debbie
She should be easy to towel if you do it snuggly. I'm surprised your vet has trouble with this (I'm not saying this as a "diss" on you). If you properly towel a bird. Thsy cannot move. Kinda like a mentally crazy person in those white jackets. The towel needs to be snug but not suffocating. So if she is able to squirm, she isn't snug enough. But take care when doing this if you're unsure as you can make it too tight.

Tube feeding is really easy once you know how to do it and can restrain snuggly.

I just worry that if you aren't able to tube feed her how is she getting enough to eat.
Sometimes it takes the vet several tries to actually get her snugged in the towel. My vet helps at the Gabriel Foundation so she handles birds a lot. Polly just has a talent for being difficult. She is built like a linebacker too and just strong and headstrong. Without a vet tech there to be devoted only to restraining Polly, .....well, you just can't do it one-handed.
The big trouble isn't even the restraint part, but that she won't swallow food syringed into her beak. And I can't imagine an inexperienced person gavage feeding her alone.

I will take her in for some feedings if I need to.
She will eat if she likes what is there.
A rare and special treat I remembered is orange creamsicles. So, well, yesterday she happily held the stick and ate some (I cut off most of it first). Whatever works at some point.
 

MommyBird

Biking along the boulevard
Avenue Veteran
Mayor of the Avenue
Joined
10/23/09
Messages
6,814
Location
Colorado
Real Name
Debbie
This is a support group of people living with the disease. You can't get any closer than that to it.
Yep Jen, I've actually been a member for awhile just so I could learn the new developments as this disease has always actually been my biggest fear. Funny how things work. haha not.
It is true that the web page they refer you to is very outdated. I wish it were more up to date, but probably time and money related.
However asking questions on the chat does get you current info.
 

jmfleish

Cruising the avenue
Vendor
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/19/09
Messages
13,323
Location
Madison, WI
Real Name
Jen
Yep Jen, I've actually been a member for awhile just so I could learn the new developments as this disease has always actually been my biggest fear. Funny how things work. haha not.
It is true that the web page they refer you to is very outdated. I wish it were more up to date, but probably time and money related.
However asking questions on the chat does get you current info.
I'm so sorry you're going through this...I think it's everyone's worst fear though...we're here for you though...
 

MommyBird

Biking along the boulevard
Avenue Veteran
Mayor of the Avenue
Joined
10/23/09
Messages
6,814
Location
Colorado
Real Name
Debbie
Sorry my time is limited to post anymore. I have 3 birds on meds twice a day (Will's heart meds are ongoing), then syringe and "tempting" feedings.

I try to keep from carrying any virus around, so I don't take any books, cell phones, computers downstairs with the Amazons.
I change clothes in between locations, including footware. And I wear a shower cap which fortunately they don't care about.
Then when I come back up I wash up well, with a shower after one Amazon session. Sometimes after washing I also go outside in the sun for an hour before handling others. Heck, I even blow my nose since who knows what you breathe in.

I did 5 years working at a p3 biocontainment facility working with genetically engineered e coli. I also was in charge of the radioactive hydrogen monitoring. This has really flipped my obsessive switch, but everything takes so long anymore with it all.
And it may be for naught as I may have been a vector before I knew the Amazons were diagnosed.

I try to maximize the time I can spend with everybody, as that is all they want, and all I want. I can never have too much time with them.
 

macawsmom

Moving in
Joined
7/12/13
Messages
7
This is a support group of people living with the disease. You can't get any closer than that to it.
Oh I have first hand knowledge ALL of my flock is ABV positive and have been healthy, happy and thriving for many years. The bird that I have had the longest has been with me for 37 years.
 

MommyBird

Biking along the boulevard
Avenue Veteran
Mayor of the Avenue
Joined
10/23/09
Messages
6,814
Location
Colorado
Real Name
Debbie
Oh I have first hand knowledge ALL of my flock is ABV positive and have been healthy, happy and thriving for many years. The bird that I have had the longest has been with me for 37 years.
I would sure love if you would tell more of your story........did you ever have any go on to pdd? How did you discover they are all ABV positive? .......Yeah, and well all of it that you would care to share really. It seems that you think diet is the most important part of keeping them well?

Do you ever feel like people treat you as "dirty" when they find out the ABV status of your flock?
Do you feel you could ever bring in a new bird? I wonder what rescues think of this situation, as supposedly 33% of captive parrots are positive anyway. so THEY may be sending out positive birds unless they are testing.
 

jmfleish

Cruising the avenue
Vendor
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/19/09
Messages
13,323
Location
Madison, WI
Real Name
Jen
Oh I have first hand knowledge ALL of my flock is ABV positive and have been healthy, happy and thriving for many years. The bird that I have had the longest has been with me for 37 years.
My point was, it's nice to be able to talk to others that have been through or are going through PDD. I'm assuming you haven't had any birds come down with PDD symptoms as of yet? Not all birds that test positive for ABV ever get PDD and even though your bird tests positive for ABV does not necessarily mean that it has ABV. It would be nice to hear more about your story so we aren't just guessing about the few comments you've made here.
 

Katy

Cruising the avenue
Mayor of the Avenue
Joined
12/22/12
Messages
10,385
Location
Coastal Oregon
Sorry my time is limited to post anymore. I have 3 birds on meds twice a day (Will's heart meds are ongoing), then syringe and "tempting" feedings.

I try to keep from carrying any virus around, so I don't take any books, cell phones, computers downstairs with the Amazons.
I change clothes in between locations, including footware. And I wear a shower cap which fortunately they don't care about.
Then when I come back up I wash up well, with a shower after one Amazon session. Sometimes after washing I also go outside in the sun for an hour before handling others. Heck, I even blow my nose since who knows what you breathe in.

I did 5 years working at a p3 biocontainment facility working with genetically engineered e coli. I also was in charge of the radioactive hydrogen monitoring. This has really flipped my obsessive switch, but everything takes so long anymore with it all.
And it may be for naught as I may have been a vector before I knew the Amazons were diagnosed.

I try to maximize the time I can spend with everybody, as that is all they want, and all I want. I can never have too much time with them.
you poor, poor, thing. You're emotions are shredded and there simply isn't enough time to do what you want and need to do. But I do think its very valuable that you worked in that bio containment facility. It may save a birds life. You can't look back. Only look forward and do your best technically and love and enjoy your birds. Hang tough, sister. :heart:
 
Top