A Question About the Worst Disease

[juliashmulia]

I'm not on super often and can't remember if I shared this, but last fall, after mystery illness for over a year, after countless vet visits and all kinds of testing, Silas was diagnosed with PDD, via the new anti-ganglioside test. Needless to say I am beyond devastated, but just trying to get through each day. It's been a rollercoaster ride, to say the least. We're currently treating with Onsior injections and daily Celebrex (when symptomatic), diet amendments, Roudybush APD, Harrison's Recovery, VetOmega, etc.. My vet has been amazing through all of this and I have a wonderful support team that includes the famous Dr. O from Ohio.

That said, the more support the better, and if there are others on this forum who have insight or helpful suggestions, I'm all ears.

There's so much more I could say to fill you all in on the road we took to get here, but it's late, and mainly it's just that this disease sucks. It's horrible and part of me is still in denial about it.

I do have a question...

I was wondering if any other PDD bird moms or dads have used probiotics for PDD. If so, which ones? I was looking into one called Visbiome--has anyone used it? How do you administer it? Do you feel like it makes a big difference? Any info would be helpful.

Thanks, and I'm so sorry for anyone else who has to watch their bird waste away in the grips of this horrible disease.

 

[Karen]

I was wondering if any other PDD bird moms or dads have used probiotics for PDD. If so, which ones? I was looking into one called Visbiome--has anyone used it? How do you administer it? Do you feel like it makes a big difference? Any info would be helpful.

I'm sure with all the medications Silas has been on it's a wise choice to incorporate a good probiotic into the treatment plan. I don't have any experience with Visbiome but I wanted to say that I'm so very sorry you and Silas are in the midst of this terrible disease. My thoughts are with you.

I'm not familiar with the Onsior injections. Is this a relatively new medication being used for treatment? I hope they're helping. A definite plus to have Dr. O on your team. I have always heard wonderful things about her. I consulted with her years ago when I was in the midst of a difficult diagnosis quest and she was very helpful.

There's so much more I could say to fill you all in on the road we took to get here, but it's late, and mainly it's just that this disease sucks. It's horrible and part of me is still in denial about it.

We are here as a community to listen and be supportive if you want to do that.

 

[ncGreyBirdLady]

 

[sunnysmom]

So sorry to hear about Silas. My cockatiel didn't have PDD but he did seem to have a weakened immune system so my vet and I decided to give him daily probiotics. I'm not familiar with the brand you mentioned. I'm assuming it is specifically for birds? If not, it should be. I would buy my probiotics directly from the vet and am drawing a blank at the moment what the name was. It was a powder and I would either sprinkle it over his vegetables or lightly moisten some millet spray and sprinkle it over that. Just anything that was moist so the powder would stick to it.

 

[Hjarta5]

for more attention

 

[Hankmacaw]

Yes, my vet prescribed Visbiome for my Jasper (GW female 27 years old) when she lost all (and I mean all) of her resident gut flora through a combination of occurrences. It really acted fast and her digestion was fine after a couple of weeks.

One other product you might ask your vet about is Prozyme. It predigests food, especially protein, and a bird with PDD needs all the help possible to get nourishment. I have used it with Jasper for months now because her atherosclerosis was causing her to not digest much of anything (due to lack of adequate blood circulation in the crops) and therefore dropping weight. I had used Prozyme before on both of my sickly birds and have always been very pleased with it.

I'm so very sorry about Silas' diagnosis. I've heard very good things about the onsior. It sounds as if Silas is getting the very best of care and attention. I wish you and Silas the very best.

 

[juliashmulia]

I'm sure with all the medications Silas has been on it's a wise choice to incorporate a good probiotic into the treatment plan. I don't have any experience with Visbiome but I wanted to say that I'm so very sorry you and Silas are in the midst of this terrible disease. My thoughts are with you.

I'm not familiar with the Onsior injections. Is this a relatively new medication being used for treatment? I hope they're helping. A definite plus to have Dr. O on your team. I have always heard wonderful things about her. I consulted with her years ago when I was in the midst of a difficult diagnosis quest and she was very helpful.



We are here as a community to listen and be supportive if you want to do that.

Thank you so much. That means a lot. <3 The Onsior is I think little-known in use for PDD. It only needs to be administered once every 5 days, so it's not as much of a hassle as daily meds. Silas is absolutely TERRIFIED of towels (had a couple of bad experiences with old vets) so restraining him to give him meds isn't really possible. Sennies are super stubborn, can be phobic, and hold a pretty mean grudge when 'wronged', so I have to tread lightly. I take him to my vet and have the tech give him his injections when he needs them. It costs me $22 a pop, plus I had to buy the whole bottle of Onsior at $180. This disease has been costly in so many ways, the least of all monetarily.

 

[juliashmulia]

View attachment 314009

Thank you <3

 

[juliashmulia]

So sorry to hear about Silas. My cockatiel didn't have PDD but he did seem to have a weakened immune system so my vet and I decided to give him daily probiotics. I'm not familiar with the brand you mentioned. I'm assuming it is specifically for birds? If not, it should be. I would buy my probiotics directly from the vet and am drawing a blank at the moment what the name was. It was a powder and I would either sprinkle it over his vegetables or lightly moisten some millet spray and sprinkle it over that. Just anything that was moist so the powder would stick to it.

Visbiome is actually made for people with ulcerative colitis, and they make one for dogs, too. I'm actually not sure which one to get. My personal avian vet says probiotics are meh (he said he hasn't seen enough evidence of them helping--of course that was before Silas really started declining). Dr O is the one who mentioned Visbiome. It's reeealy expensive. Like $70 for a bottle of capsules.

 

[juliashmulia]

for more attention

Thank you!

 

[juliashmulia]

Yes, my vet prescribed Visbiome for my Jasper (GW female 27 years old) when she lost all (and I mean all) of her resident gut flora through a combination of occurrences. It really acted fast and her digestion was fine after a couple of weeks.

One other product you might ask your vet about is Prozyme. It predigests food, especially protein, and a bird with PDD needs all the help possible to get nourishment. I have used it with Jasper for months now because her atherosclerosis was causing her to not digest much of anything (due to lack of adequate blood circulation in the crops) and therefore dropping weight. I had used Prozyme before on both of my sickly birds and have always been very pleased with it.

I'm so very sorry about Silas' diagnosis. I've heard very good things about the onsior. It sounds as if Silas is getting the very best of care and attention. I wish you and Silas the very best.

Thank you so much for your kind words. Which Visbiome did you use, if you remember? I saw there's one for humans and one for dogs. Dr. O is the one who mentioned it to me, but didn't go into which one to get.

I hadn't heard of Prozyme, but I just looked it up and it looks like it's made for cats and dogs, is that right? I like that it's a lot cheaper than the Visbiome. I'm happy to spend whatever to help Silas get better, but my concern is he can be picky about me adding things to his food. I hate to spend $80 and have him turn up his beak...

Does Jasper have PDD? It's such a horrible disease...

Thank you again for the reply and for your encouragement. <3

 

[Hawk12237]

Hey julia, sorry to hear about Silas and the PDD.
It's not something easy to over come.It
I have heard that diffusion was used in treatment of pdd. Medical grade essential oils as the foundation of the treatment because they are the strongest antivirals of which I am currently aware. Additionally, diffused essential oils enter a bird's blood stream rapidly as they are absorbed into the air sacs and from there easily find the blood.
Worth a shot, I know of nothing else that actually proven to really rid the bird of the virus. Comfort is best I can offer.

 

[Karen]

Interesting, do you know which oils are recommended?

Dr. Melissa Shelton is the vet that has done a lot of research, has her own line of oils and uses them effectively. She advised me years ago when I first started using them. She may be one to talk to.

 

[Karen]

Thank you so much. That means a lot. <3 The Onsior is I think little-known in use for PDD. It only needs to be administered once every 5 days, so it's not as much of a hassle as daily meds. Silas is absolutely TERRIFIED of towels (had a couple of bad experiences with old vets) so restraining him to give him meds isn't really possible. Sennies are super stubborn, can be phobic, and hold a pretty mean grudge when 'wronged', so I have to tread lightly. I take him to my vet and have the tech give him his injections when he needs them. It costs me $22 a pop, plus I had to buy the whole bottle of Onsior at $180. This disease has been costly in so many ways, the least of all monetarily.

Thank you for the Onsior information. I can see where that would be very helpful for birds that are difficult to medicate. I have one of those myself.

 

[Danita]

@jmfleish knows quite a bit about it.
Lets see if I can drag her out to get some info.

 

[Hankmacaw]

@juliashmulia
I use the Visbione Vet. It is effective for birds as well al for dogs and cats. The Prozyme and proviotics (Visbione) perform different functions. The Prozyme actually predigests proteins and makes the nutritional values immediately available while the probiotics replace lost natural gut flora. Both make more nutrition available.

I, personally, am against using essential oils for a bird. One has to understand that the avian respiratory system is very efficient and complex and retains at least twice as much from breathing as we do within their system. IMO oils can stay within the respiratory system of a bird and cause the issues that any contaminant

Jasper does not have PDD. She has severe heart disease and even more severe atherosclerosis. Both of which reduce her circulation a lot and she has damaged air sacs from a couple of bouts with Aspergillosis.

Again wishing you and Silas the very best.

 

[Hawk12237]

Interesting, do you know which oils are recommended?

Dr. Melissa Shelton is the vet that has done a lot of research, has her own line of oils and uses them effectively. She advised me years ago when I first started using them. She may be one to talk to.

I personally never used them, I've always been under the impression that a birds respiratory is very sensitive so never tried it.
That said, my wife whom worked along side an avian vet for years, mention that that vet had recommended fission oils in a couple off cases.
The oils that were recommended are sold under young living. It's believed that the oils are the strongest anti virals, and enter the birds blood stream rapidly and absorbed through the air sacks. This is used along with other meds from vet. In moderation, and not continuous.
The vet closely monitored the treatment and no negative side effects in any of the birds were reported or documented in its use in these few cases.
New research comes about daily....for example it was always thought that garlic is bad for birds.
Research has proven otherwise. That it can help.
Fresh garlic cloves can be offered to parrots in moderation. Measured by the drop, Kyolic liquid garlic is often used to treat fungal and bacterial problems of parrots. Garlic can cause anemia in some animals if given for long periods of time, (cats and dogs)but to date, however there is no documented research evidence of harm to parrots.
But again I never had any birds with PDD yet....Sparky was the only one with respiratory issues. But he was in his last year of life, an old parrot.
I don't know if fusing would have helped, but why prolong pain?
I personally need to really research deeper in the benefits vs. Risks before I try fusing, if I ever need to come to that.
But so far, I have not heard anything bad happen to any bird that has been under fusing.
And that's only a very small group of birds.

 

[Hawk12237]

@juliashmulia
I use the Visbione Vet. It is effective for birds as well al for dogs and cats. The Prozyme and proviotics (Visbione) perform different functions. The Prozyme actually predigests proteins and makes the nutritional values immediately available while the probiotics replace lost natural gut flora. Both make more nutrition available.

I, personally, am against using essential oils for a bird. One has to understand that the avian respiratory system is very efficient and complex and retains at least twice as much from breathing as we do within their system. IMO oils can stay within the respiratory system of a bird and cause the issues that any contaminant

Jasper does not have PDD. She has severe heart disease and even more severe atherosclerosis. Both of which reduce her circulation a lot and she has damaged air sacs from a couple of bouts with Aspergillosis.

Again wishing you and Silas the very best.

Yea I'm kinda like you mary...old fashion in a lot of things. And cautious about new treatments.
I sent a post above to karen , welcome to have a read.
Fusing I don't know a whole lot about, but they are researching the benefits here and there concerning birds. My wife's co worker, an avian vet has been experimenting with fusing. Three cases so far with pdd, and no negative effects from it.
For me it's too small a number to base evidence on, I need to see more evidence and research benefits. But if a birds life was on the line, I'd have to weigh in on the benefits vs. Prolonging pain.

 

[sunnysmom]

Visbiome is actually made for people with ulcerative colitis, and they make one for dogs, too. I'm actually not sure which one to get. My personal avian vet says probiotics are meh (he said he hasn't seen enough evidence of them helping--of course that was before Silas really started declining). Dr O is the one who mentioned Visbiome. It's reeealy expensive. Like $70 for a bottle of capsules.

I don't know enough about using probiotics with PDD but I do think probiotics vastly improved and very likely added years to my tiel's like. We got Sunny when he was 15 and he had one bacterial infection after another. He'd start vomiting. I'd take him to the vet. He'd be on antibiotics for 2 weeks and probiotics for 30 days and then he'd get another one 3-4 months later. It broke my heart seeing him get sick all the time. And I was fanatical about trying to keep everything as clean for him as possible. Washed my hands constantly, etc. My vet just thought that because of his age, he had a lowered immune system and couldn't maintain his good bacteria level. (My vet once did a swab and found that he had zero good bacteria.) Anyway, after over a year of this, we decided to just keep him on probiotics. After going on probiotics, he only ever had one other bacterial infection like 2 years later. It made a big difference for us.

 

[Fuzzy]

Interesting, do you know which oils are recommended?

Yes, it will be Melissa, which is a highly anti-viral oil, for a virus like PDD. And Copaiba and Frankincense for their anti-inflammatory properties. I started diffusing those in rotation for Ollie when I thought he might have PDD.