Chicken, chicken bones, and eggs

[waterfaller1]

Some other thoughts I just had while taking a shower{I do some of my best thinking in there...}
Grubs are another possible food source. It wouldn't take much for a bird to scrape into the bark of a tree, and find grubs.
We do know small birds are a natural part of a Ramphastids diet{toucans, aracaris}
On the line of BF's post,some birds like quakers do live in a colony nest, but most parrots do not. The parents are the only ones in the nest, and will defend it vehemently from any intruder, including those of their own kind. Why do you think that is so? It isn't because the other parrot wants to move in with them. It's because they know their chicks or eggs are vulnerable, and that other bird has one thing on it's mind. Eating the eggs, or the chicks.
On a side note~as with human medicine, CAV's are not required to study nutrition. I think the bird community knows more about it than they do.

 

[Ziggymon]

Destroying nests and killing young that are not their own is not unique to bird species, and in many cases has more to do with keeping resources available for the young that carry one's own genetic code than it has to do with food. Tom cats, for example, will routinely kill kittens they have not fathered, not to eat them, but to be able to impregnate the female cat more quickly. Other animals will kill others' young or remove them from nests in order to take over prime nesting sites, conserve resources for the use of their own progeny, etc. If looking toward a species' behavior in the wild, it may be all too easy to conflate those bevaviors with food driven behaviors, such as those evidenced by animals that in fact raid nesting sites specifically for food.

 

[orphansparrow]

to me, morality is a very individualistic thing. what is wrong to one person, is quite right to someone else. if the person has thought long and honestly about a subject, and believes it to be morally wrong, than the best thing they can do is to honor that belief for themselves.

i personally do not believe that a bird eating bird parts is morally wrong. if you already ate the chicken meat, the bones would just go to waste being thrown away.

 

[penny'smom]

I'm a vegan (no animal products whatsoever) for ethical, health, and environmental reasons. My birds get a huge variety of fruits, veggies, nuts, seeds, and nutritious grains - all the nutrition they need in the form closest to what they'd eat in the wild. In my research I've never found anything suggesting that birds need animal-derived foods. As another person said, I'd be worried about shell/bone fragments injuring the bird.

 

[ncGreyBirdLady]

I have been feeding well cooked chicken leg/thigh bones to ALL of My Fids for over 20 years.When My Gemini was a Baby and she had seizures,(2o years ago) there was not a whole lot of help/information for Us ParrontsI had remembered some where reading about the nutrition in chicken bone marrow.SO I gave it a shot-With the Chicken bones given once a week and the addition of full spectrum lighting,Gemini nor ANY of My other Fids have EVER had seizures againI also give well scrambled eggs once a week(great way to hide some spirulina)NO SHELLS ever!My thoughts on whether its Moral or not---In My mind-Its Medicine that Has kept My Gemini and all the rest of the Fids happy and Healthy for the past 20 yearsIt works for Me,The Fids love it--That's what Matters!

 

[KatherinesBirds]

Okay, morally wrong?!......Well, your husband sounds like a really sensitive guy and I would reassure him that the birdies will benefit greatly from all of these. The last time my Meyer's, Blue Crown and my painted Conures grabbed a piece of egg yolk out of my hands and wolfed it down.....I guarantee you there was no remorse or afterthought on the subject.
Go ahead....GIVE EM CHICKEN!

 

[Bokkapooh]

And that is where you are wrong. They are not herbivores. They eat mostly nuts, fruits, etc... but give them the opportunity and they will eat protein. They eat rodents, bugs,reptiles and would eat a small bird if the opportunity presented itself. Where do you think wild birds get their protein?There are no legumes cooked up for them. Let a lovebird out into a flight of macaws or cockatoos and see what happens.{not literally, just speaking in the general sense to make the point}My friend has a huge flock of macaws, and they will stalk and eat anything that makes it's way into that flight. Snakes, squirrels, worms, whatever. And it's not "all this protein", at least in my case, it is a small amount only.

Well this is where I kindly ask for proof. I volunteer quite frequently at two well known parrot sanctuaries here in WA state, and let me tell you on the aviary birds up here in the pacific north west. They won't eat the rats or mice, or squirrels or small birds that come into their aviary. These birds are kept in large aviaries year long. I hope your friend can catch a video of this, if she is going to pass it along that this is what her birds do.

 

[Bokkapooh]

Some other thoughts I just had while taking a shower{I do some of my best thinking in there...}Grubs are another possible food source. It wouldn't take much for a bird to scrape into the bark of a tree, and find grubs.We do know small birds are a natural part of a Ramphastids diet{toucans, aracaris}On the line of BF's post,some birds like quakers do live in a colony nest, but most parrots do not. The parents are the only ones in the nest, and will defend it vehemently from any intruder, including those of their own kind. Why do you think that is so? It isn't because the other parrot wants to move in with them. It's because they know their chicks or eggs are vulnerable, and that other bird has one thing on it's mind. Eating the eggs, or the chicks.On a side note~as with human medicine, CAV's are not required to study nutrition. I think the bird community knows more about it than they do.

I do know that crows and starlings and even birds of prey, will rob a nest for the young. But I have yet to hear parrots and most other species doing this. My breeder birds would kill and destroy babies and eggs so they can have the nest. Not to eat them. The only birds that ever ate the babies or eggs (in my experience) were the very young pairs. And then one day their clutch of eggs and hatchlings gone. I could only speculate what happened. But again this isn't the norm and was only seen in one female zebra finches who paired young and had her first clutch at 6 months.

 

[Bokkapooh]

I do want to add that I do see a macaw or cockatoo stalking another animal. My birds hate my dog and my snake, and if they could, and they do try sometimes(well thy Try, nothing happens, I'm there to intervene), they will try and attack my dog and snake. I'm sure if they could kill them both they would. But I don't think they would eat them I think its territorial. A couple of my 'toos have killed smaller birds while in my care (not going into it) and they surely killed them and that was it. Left the body where it was..

 

[Ziggymon]

I do want to add that I do see a macaw or cockatoo stalking another animal. My birds hate my dog and my snake, and if they could, and they do try sometimes(well thy Try, nothing happens, I'm there to intervene), they will try and attack my dog and snake. I'm sure if they could kill them both they would. But I don't think they would eat them I think its territorial. A couple of my 'toos have killed smaller birds while in my care (not going into it) and they surely killed them and that was it. Left the body where it was..

Agreed. (Although Ziggy chases the cats and birds when he has the opportunity, not to kill or hurt them, but because he finds it terribly amusing.)

Strangely enough, on another board, someone just posted about a couple of male rabbits killing a litter of bunnies who were born, unexpectedly, overnight, to a rescued female. Another case of males killing young who don't carry their genes.

 

[Mizzely]

I definitely don't think it is necessary for most parrots to eat meat. It is true that most of their diet is nuts, fruits, veggies, etc. but they will eat bugs, grubs, and some may eat small snakes or rodents. But I don't think it will hurt them to have some either. It is definitely possible for some disorders, etc, that including more protein in the diet can help, and meat is a great, easy way to do it. Even though I don't find it morally wrong or cannibalistic, that doesn't mean I feed my bird meat. It just means I don't see anything ethically wrong with it. I do give him scrambled eggs once a week, because he loves them and I don't see a problem with doing so. I think it is important to ensure any meat given is very lean, as in reality any meat source they may exploit in the wild would not be fatty such as our burgers are

I do think it is important to realize that morals are different from person to person, as someone else mentioned, especially when we have people from different backgrounds and countries here. We cannot force anyone to accept our morals simply because we think it is right. We can share our opionions and hope to gain insight into other people's thoughts, and in doing so better understand our own position, but this shouldn't really be a debate about morals andI know an earlier post by me may seem contradictory to that. I just think we should try to keep the topic to be able the birds, and not as much as our moral compass

 

[Ziggymon]

Well, the issue of morality arose because it was part of the subject of the opening post.

But purely to the question of whether feeding meat is necessary - no, it's not. Whole grains and legumes provide plenty of protein, even for omnivores (such as humans), much less for parrots, who naturally eat a plant based diet, and without fat to boot. And nuts also provide a lot of protein, with fats that are beneficial, rather than harmful like meat associated fats are. And what so many people overlook is that even vegetables contain protein. We're a protein obssessed culture, largely because of the marketing of the meat and dairy industries - people don't even realize that they're eating much more protein than their bodies can even process.

 

[Mizzely]

Well, the issue of morality arose because it was part of the subject of the opening post.

But purely to the question of whether feeding meat is necessary - no, it's not. Whole grains and legumes provide plenty of protein, even for omnivores (such as humans), much less for parrots, who naturally eat a plant based diet, and without fat to boot. And nuts also provide a lot of protein, with fats that are beneficial, rather than harmful like meat associated fats are. And what so many people overlook is that even vegetables contain protein. We're a protein obssessed culture, largely because of the marketing of the meat and dairy industries - people don't even realize that they're eating much more protein than their bodies can even process.

Oh I agree! I know that morality was part of the question, but it was getting a bit steamy in here I wasn't trying to moderate or say to leave off it! Just that arguments about differences in morality are rarely won

Also, you are very right though, we have a lot of protein in our diet as it is.

 

[waterfaller1]

Yellow-Tailed Black Cockatoo's diet is made up of insects.
While some cockatoos are generalists taking a wide range of foods, others are specialists.
Cockatoo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A few species sometimes eat animals and carrion
Parrot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[penny'smom]

Well, the issue of morality arose because it was part of the subject of the opening post.

But purely to the question of whether feeding meat is necessary - no, it's not. Whole grains and legumes provide plenty of protein, even for omnivores (such as humans), much less for parrots, who naturally eat a plant based diet, and without fat to boot. And nuts also provide a lot of protein, with fats that are beneficial, rather than harmful like meat associated fats are. And what so many people overlook is that even vegetables contain protein. We're a protein obssessed culture, largely because of the marketing of the meat and dairy industries - people don't even realize that they're eating much more protein than their bodies can even process.

you said what I was about to say about nutrition.

 

[65sunnyday]

Without really addressing the morality of eating meat--I have way reduced my family's meat intake for health reasons. I notice, when I do have meat on my plate, it's the first thing Nicky heads for. I do give him well-cooked chicken thigh bones, which he covets. He opens the bone, & licks out the marrow.

 

[Ziggymon]

Just that arguments about differences in morality are rarely won

Oh, I agree.

From a health point of view, other than the higher proportion of fat in beef, I don't see much difference in feeding a parrot chicken versus beef. Chickens are bombarded with as many hormones, antibiotics, etc., as cattle are. In fact, even chickens that aren't subjected to extra regimens of various additives (and whose carcasses aren't injected with preservatives) are getting hormones and additives in their feed - it's almost unavoidable. I have chickens as well ducks, and I can't find feed that doesn't have additives which I'd rather not be feeding them. It seems counterproductive to be careful about the quality of the veggies and fruits we feed our birds, and then feed them the crap that has been incorporated into *meat animals*.

 

[waterfaller1]

The question was..
Is it morally wrong, or cannibalistic for parrots to eat chicken?
I agree morals are something that we all decide differently.
My argument is , it is natural in some instances for parrots to eat protein from other animal sources, including birds.
There are many kinds of parrots, herbivores, frugivores, floravores, omnivores..

 

[Sharpie]

I don't find anything morally or ethically objectionable about parrots eating chicken (or pork, or beef) as it has already been pointed out that parrots are no more closely related to chickens than people are to cows (or pigs, etc). It is not cannibalistic. That said, I don't make a point of feeding Jasper or the budgies animal products, even though I do think some insect consumption by their wild relatives is probably likely. If there's a bit of beef in the spaghetti sauce or some chicken in the tamale chunk Jasper steals, I don't worry about that either though.

The one exception is Thanksgiving. Jasper has been given a turkey bone to destroy and eat the marrow from every Thanksgiving in his life, and I have no intention of breaking the pattern if we eat at my house or I am sent home with left overs.

 

[all4stvoyager]

If you feel that there is a moral or other type of problem, it really isn't a big deal..there are many other ways to get protien

I personally very rarely feed my birds animal protien, but only because I very rarely have it in the house. It does seem weird to me a little...but my birds love the very occasional treat.