Poppers had another real bad episode

[Nikomania]

For people it takes a few weeks to acclimate to phenobarb's side effects. Not sure how quickly birds adjust to it though.

 

[Hawk12237]

For people it takes a few weeks to acclimate to phenobarb's side effects. Not sure how quickly birds adjust to it though.

I'm not either to be honest. But will give vet a call and ask how long the effects last for before they lesson in a bird. Hopefully not long...

 

[Hankmacaw]

Phenobarbitol is the go-to medication to control seizures. She may need have her dosage adjusted - get in touch with the Dr. and discuss it with her. It may take a week before you find the right dose. Before you completely give up on the phenobarbitol give it a chance. Remember that each time she has a seizure some damage is done to her. It is a narcotic, so yes, when she is taken off of it she will have withdrawal, but you can control that by being careful.

Gabapentin is another medication to control seizures, but is not as effective and is also a narcotic. I don't think a holistic medication would do the job and I don't know of any.

When Jasper was on Haldol (Haliperidol) it took several days to get to the right dose. Without the Haliperidol she would have chewed her foot off.

 

[Hankmacaw]

Yes the side effects of Phenobarbitol do moderate over time. That is one reason why there have been suicides with it. As far as reading about the side effects, any company that issues a drug has to list every side effect and reading them will scare you to death.

Your vet would not have prescribed it if it were that dangerous.

 

[Hawk12237]

Phenobarbitol is the go-to medication to control seizures. She may need have her dosage adjusted - get in touch with the Dr. and discuss it with her. It may take a week before you find the right dose. Before you completely give up on the phenobarbitol give it a chance. Remember that each time she has a seizure some damage is done to her. It is a narcotic, so yes, when she is taken off of it she will have withdrawal, but you can control that by being careful.

Gabapentin is another medication to control seizures, but is not as effective and is also a narcotic. I don't think a holistic medication would do the job and I don't know of any.

When Jasper was on Haldol (Haliperidol) it took several days to get to the right dose. Without the Haliperidol she would have chewed her foot off.

You do have a point there Mary, each time she has a seizure or stroke, a little damage is done.
That is true. And I'm weighing that as well.
I was reading an interesting article that fungus infections come in many forms. They even can mimic seizures and strokes to a point depending on how ones reaction to the fungus infection is.
Though she had plaque in upper arteries, it's not bad at all says vet. But don't want it getting any worse.
The vet is with a client, she'll call me inbetween them, or usually around noon. Poppers has not had any issues with seizure in last 9 days, and past 4 she's been like her normal self, apart from yesterday, with the seizure meds. Quite dopey.
It's a question I want to ask vet, if she feels the seizures are plaque related or fungus related.
What do you think?? If it was fungus related and fungus is treated... Would it be wise to be on the phenobarbital.?? I know, lots of questions.
I don't even know if it possible for vet to determine and distinguish if it was plaque related, or fungus related or a combination of both.

 

[Hankmacaw]

Yes, fungal infections can present in 100's of ways, but did the Dr. determine which of the thousands of fungi it was. It seems that the fungal infection Poppers had had progressed to a pretty critical point since she wasn't eating (fungus infections make then pretty naseaus) and she was actually drooling. Remember she was starving and may have had pretty low blood sugar.very

The coronary occlusion - if she says it wasn't very bad, it probably was not the cause of her seizures. Jasper's occlusion (atherosclerosis) is very, very severe and extends to her liver/kidneys/chest muscles and upper arteries to her brain. Her circulation is terrible. She has had only two very minor seizures. Keep in mind the difference between seizures and strokes. Seizures are over (uncontrolled firing off) activity of the neurons in the brain, while a stroke is an occlusion of an artery that cause lack of blood/oxygen to a group of cells and those cells die whether in the brain or lungs or liver etc.

 

[Hawk12237]

Yes, fungal infections can present in 100's of ways, but did the Dr. determine which of the thousands of fungi it was. It seems that the fungal infection Poppers had had progressed to a pretty critical point since she wasn't eating (fungus infections make then pretty naseaus) and she was actually drooling. Remember she was starving and may have had pretty low blood sugar.very

The coronary occlusion - if she says it wasn't very bad, it probably was not the cause of her seizures. Jasper's occlusion (atherosclerosis) is very, very severe and extends to her liver/kidneys/chest muscles and upper arteries to her brain. Her circulation is terrible. She has had only two very minor seizures. Keep in mind the difference between seizures and strokes. Seizures are over (uncontrolled firing off) activity of the neurons in the brain, while a stroke is an occlusion of an artery that cause lack of blood/oxygen to a group of cells and those cells die whether in the brain or lungs or liver etc.

Still waiting on vet to call back. She may of said what type of fungus, when at the vets, but I may of missed what type she said. I'm going to get clarification on that.
True, she was starving, got very skinny. Lost a lot of weight. But she plumped back up and is looking good again. Thanks to hand feeding by syringe, and getting the meds down. It did it's job!
I too believe her blood sugar dropped way too low as she wasn't getting nutrients from food due to the infection. Her poop has returned to normal.
True vet said the coronary issue wasn't bad, but still didn't rule out that a piece of plaque could have broken off and caused the episode.
But yea she was drooling back then, vomiting a couple times. So yea the infection played a big role in this. Like a poison to their body.
So will tell you what vet says in a bit.
By the way, how are jaspers days being on that med? Is he tolerating it ok? Changes in behavior?

 

[rocky'smom]

Basically any infection whether bacterial or fungal is poisonous to the body whether us humans or our feathered buddies. It compromises the immune system and it gets out of whack. Depending on how out of whack it is depends on how sick they or we are.
Poppers was pretty sick, alot of stuff going on at the same time. My only suggestion is to start building back her immune system, beginning with gut. Probiotices , seems to me, to be the way to build back her immune system. I would ask the vet and get her recommendation, first. But there are great probiotices out there for our feathered friends.

 

[Hankmacaw]

By the way, how are jaspers days being on that med? Is he tolerating it ok? Changes in behavior?

If you are asking about the Haldol - that was 12 years ago when Jasper (a girl bird) chewed off the end of a toe due to arthritis pain. She absolutely would not tolerate a collar - would flop and flip and scream, do Dr. Driggers put her on Haldol. Haldol is not generally used for seizure control.

Her first dosage made her a zombie bird. We took it down two times and then she was a sleepy bird and a silly bird, depending where she was in her cycle of drugs. No matter what she had to be watched all the time and when I couldn't watch her, she had to go into her crate.
Here she is in about the middle of a dosage.

 

[Hankmacaw]

BTW - Jasper was on the Haldol for two weeks. She didn't try to chew on her foot while on it and that gave the toe an opportunity to heal well. There were no lasting effects from the Haldol.

There were a lot of funny stories about thins she did while a "druggie".

 

[Hawk12237]

If you are asking about the Haldol - that was 12 years ago when Jasper (a girl bird) chewed off the end of a toe due to arthritis pain. She absolutely would not tolerate a collar - would flop and flip and scream, do Dr. Driggers put her on Haldol. Haldol is not generally used for seizure control.

Her first dosage made her a zombie bird. We took it down two times and then she was a sleepy bird and a silly bird, depending where she was in her cycle of drugs. No matter what she had to be watched all the time and when I couldn't watch her, she had to go into her crate.
Here she is in about the middle of a dosage.
View attachment 315631

She's so pretty! I can see she's a little in la la land!

 

[Clueless]

BTW - Jasper was on the Haldol for two weeks. She didn't try to chew on her foot while on it and that gave the toe an opportunity to heal well. There were no lasting effects from the Haldol.

There were a lot of funny stories about thins she did while a "druggie".

So pretty....

 

[Rain Bow]

She's so pretty! I can see she's a little in la la land!

Were ypu able to talk to the vet today? Did he/she have any suggestions regarding the dose?

 

[Hawk12237]

Were ypu able to talk to the vet today? Did he/she have any suggestions regarding the dose?

Vet never called back!! Bit disappointed...have to wait till tomorrow now.
@Hankmacaw , Mary...question...what would continue to keep her weight down??
She's about done on the fungal meds. Has emeraid daily, eats on her own... Yet she still looks skinny. Weight dropped a bit, down to 371.
She hasn't had a single episode since the last time couple weeks back. She should be putting weight on faster.... Could be wrong , could take a bit. Apart than that she's doing good.
A bit clumsy at times, but that's expected.

 

[Hawk12237]

Vet never called back!! Bit disappointed...have to wait till tomorrow now.
@Hankmacaw , Mary...question...what would continue to keep her weight down??
She's about done on the fungal meds. Has emeraid daily, eats on her own... Yet she still looks skinny. Weight dropped a bit, down to 371.
She hasn't had a single episode since the last time couple weeks back. She should be putting weight on faster.... Could be wrong , could take a bit. Apart than that she's doing good.
A bit clumsy at times, but that's expected.

371g is with in average weight, but vet wants her up to 440 .....

 

[Rain Bow]

371g is with in average weight, but vet wants her up to 440 .....

As long as she can have them, some fresh nuts from Nuts.com.

I recommend the paper pecans.

Dis the Dr. Say to avoid them completely... Because of her heart/vascular issue?

If she did, I'm not sure maybe some extra ground flax on her food. Heart smart as I understand, & higher in the good fats. I'm honestly going to say that I'm guessing.

Maybe @Mizzely may have some heart smart/grand ideas too!

 

[Hawk12237]

As long as she can have them, some fresh nuts from Nuts.com.

I recommend the paper pecans.

Dis the Dr. Say to avoid them completely... Because of her heart/vascular issue?

If she did, I'm not sure maybe some extra ground flax on her food. Heart smart as I understand, & higher in the good fats. I'm honestly going to say that I'm guessing.

Maybe @Mizzely may have some heart smart/grand ideas too!

Yea the vet mentioned to back away , and cut down on nuts. And some seeds. Problem is she can pick away at what she likes and avoid the good things.
But I think she needs a bit of nuts now and then.
Shawna should have some great ideas on that!

 

[Hawk12237]

She gets beans, lentiles, sweet potato, califlower, carrots, chicken, apple, mango,
Fresh peas, plant based pasta, and fruit, some grains, no junk.

 

[Mizzely]

Dark leafy greens, whole grains, berries, walnuts, omega 3 foods like hemp seeds... I would also ask about garlic.

 

[Begone]

omega 3 foods like hemp seeds

Hemp is good, will always be on my girls diet.