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Hand feeding advice, Budgies

Beasley

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Ive been researching like crazy and I still have so many questions.

I am confident in my hand feeding experience with rodents from rodent rescue and rabbit rescue work. I’ve used syringes, droppers, and bottles. But I never had any functional experience with baby birds.

A friend of mine breeds large parrot species for a store and someone brought in two lovebirds (they are budgies) trying to sell them to the store. They took them so the babies wouldn’t die and no one wanted to spend the time tediously hand feeding tiny birds, hence my involvement.

I got a walkthrough and guided hands on lesson, a bag of formula powder, a single syringe, a heating pad and a tub containing wood chips, millet spray, and two maybe 3w old budgies.

I’ve learned to make much smaller batches, added syringes and a bit more hygiene to the process. Plus tweaks to the formula consistency and temp per online instructions (kaytee exact).

I don’t have a gram scale, should I get one?
Does a full crop make the back of the neck look lumpy? One is substantially smaller and more bald and when he eats the nape of his neck looks bulgy.
I know not to handle them when the crop is full, but can I handle them at all otherwise? It seems sad to only enjoy them when they eat...
They’re always touching, grooming each other and seem to get on well, but the bigger one has taken to sitting on top of tiny and he also seems to bite the little guy at his neck after they eat. I am wiping them clean after each feeding. I’m probably worried about nothing but I don’t want the tiny one getting hurt.
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Any advice is welcome! Thanks so much!
 

Zara

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I am confident in my hand feeding experience with rodents from rodent rescue and rabbit rescue work.
They are very different to baby parrots.

I don’t have a gram scale, should I get one?
Is a gram scale a digital scale? Then yes. WEighing chicks every morning and night and writing it all down is very important. It enables you to see their growth progress.

Does a full crop make the back of the neck look lumpy?
When fed, you can usually see the buldged crop from above the bird, there shouldn´t be any air in the crop, if there is, this is where you will see it first. Air in the crop is from incorrect feeding and is best to be massaged out (if unexerienced, best get a vet to do this).

but the bigger one has taken to sitting on top of tiny and he also seems to bite the little guy at his neck after they eat
If it is agressive biting ie pulling feathers out/making the little one squeak/hurting the little one, best to separate them. It is normal for babies to sit on top of each other, they are trying to stay warm.

I do not know about dates ect for when you can start handling budgies, I only have experience with lovebirds and a 3 week old lovebird is still bald and only just about to be pulled from the parents for hand feeding.
Your chicks look old enough to be out with you and snuggle on you for a sleep after feeding etc. but it is important to keep them warm.

@PoukieBear really knows her stuff RE budgie babies ;)
 
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Matto

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Yes, get a gram scale.
Yes, the neck can look lumpy, that's normal, but it may mean you're feeding too much.
Not only can you, but you should interact with them. Just don't do it in the five minutes before or after feeding.
Seperate the one who steps on the back of the others after they eat. Otherwise, this can cause the one being stepped on to aspirate. 15 minutes after they have finished eating you can put them back together.
 

Matto

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Props to you for taking care of these birds. Sounds like you're doing a great job.
 

PoukieBear

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I don’t have a gram scale, should I get one?


Yes! You can find them at Wal-Mart or any kitchen store, and they aren't that expensive, usually around $20
Start keeping track of the chicks weight each morning before feeding them.

Most importantly, when they are weaning or have just weaned, make sure to keep weighing them every morning to make sure they are eating well on their own and aren't losing weight.


Does a full crop make the back of the neck look lumpy? One is substantially smaller and more bald and when he eats the nape of his neck looks bulgy.
Yes, a nice full crop will also show on the back of the neck, this isn't anything to worry about, just try not to over do it.

I know not to handle them when the crop is full, but can I handle them at all otherwise? It seems sad to only enjoy them when they eat...
Yes, you can handle them every day, give them snuggles and love and they will quickly learn to trust you.


They’re always touching, grooming each other and seem to get on well, but the bigger one has taken to sitting on top of tiny and he also seems to bite the little guy at his neck after they eat. I am wiping them clean after each feeding. I’m probably worried about nothing but I don’t want the tiny one getting hurt.
The little one likely won't get hurt, since baby budgies are used to being all piled together in the nest box, and the little ones always end up on the bottom. LOL. Just keep a close eye on them to make sure that he's handling it well.
If the larger one is picking on the smaller one with bites that cause or may cause damage, then definitely separate them, maybe with a small divider of some sort in the incubator or make-shift nest box.
 

Beasley

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Ah thank you all for your responses! I will definitely be getting the scale and start separating them for 15m after feeding. I do worry about the larger one inadvertently hurting the tiny one. It’s only after feeding that he seems to make the little one scream out in pain so that should resolve any issues.

The little one is a much better eater than the larger but I have been using a less food, more frequent feedings method. I was told 4x/day but nothing I read really agrees with that.

And yay!! Snuggle time is the best time! I’m glad I can handle and love them!
 

Beasley

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Snuggling and loving on these little sweethearts is amazing! The tiny one really just wants to eat all the time even when the crop is full and they’ve just eaten he bites my fingers and cries. Am I correct in thinking that they’re too young to correct with “no biting”? The bigger one is incredibly sweet and just wants to crawl into my shirt and sleep :heart:

I started using a damp towel to wipe them down and the post feeding biting stopped. A dry towel just doesn’t get all the food off! I also watched the little one tuck his head down and smoosh his body under the larger one after last night’s feeding so I’m not worried about him being crushed lol apparently he just likes being sat on which, in retrospect, makes perfect sense.

They’re growing up so fast! And they HATE the digital scale, I think because it’s cold. Does it alter the results if I warm it up first? I was thinking just setting a cup of warm water on it for a few minutes should make it a bit less uncomfortable for their tiny feet.

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Their huge nostrils are sooo dang cute at this age :joyful::xflove:
 

Zara

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They’re growing up so fast! And they HATE the digital scale, I think because it’s cold.
Put a small piece of fleecy fabric down, then reset the scale back to zero ;)

A dry towel just doesn’t get all the food off!
Oh yes! Nothing worse than dried formula on a chick! Just a nightmare to get off!

I also watched the little one tuck his head down and smoosh his body under the larger one after last night’s feeding
My chicks would do this too, that´s why I kept them out after feeding before putting back in the bed so I could keep an eye on them.


I´m so glad things are going well!❤

Will you be keeping these birds?
 

Beasley

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Put a small piece of fleecy fabric down, then reset the scale back to zero ;)


Oh yes! Nothing worse than dried formula on a chick! Just a nightmare to get off!
Ah! Great call with the fleece pad! And yes it is! It’s like trying to get mashed carrots baby food off of well, anything.

My chicks would do this too, that´s why I kept them out after feeding before putting back in the bed so I could keep an eye on them.


I´m so glad things are going well!❤

Will you be keeping these birds?
Hmm... I just stare at them and fret haha they have such a sweet, desperate call to each other and I feel terrible separating them. I will go ahead and separate them for a few minutes after they eat, as I’m monitoring them anyway and it doesn’t make any sense to risk their lives to spare them some momentary discomfort.

They belong to the store that bought them and I’m only hand feeding them as a favor, so technically I could purchase them...But I do have seven birds in my own Flock and it feels a bit irresponsible to add more. Granted two are paired and three are parrotlets, but that doesn’t change the cost of veterinary care or spoiling everyone rotten :wacky:

I am doing my best to love them like crazy and keep in mind that they’re going to be very special pets for some lucky person/people. It’s going to be a challenge to give them back, especially since there is no knowing what their lives will be like. I’ve never bred anything for that reason...although (obviously biased) I do believe bird people are very special and different from the average dog/cat owner; budgies are so often touted as a “beginner bird” and even in some stores they’re treated like they are nothing special...it makes me want to keep them just to make sure they are loved by someone who values their amazing little souls. I’m just hoping that the owner doesn’t ask me if I want to keep them because saying no to animals is nowhere to be found in my history. I want to believe that there is a great, well-loved future for them, but how easily do people forget about the bird in its cage? How lonely might their lives be? How full of love? I’m going to be having an existential crises about this apparently. ah, my heart :depressed:
 

PoukieBear

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To weigh the birds, the easiest thing to do is to place a bowl or container on the scale, then zero it out and place the bird into the bowl or container. That way they can't escape, and you have a much easier time.

Here is a pic i took this morning of one of my baby budgies to give you an idea of what I'm talking about. I'm sorry for the absolute garbage of a pic, but I taken it for my own reference and never thought it would be posted publicly, otherwise I would have put some more effort in. LOL

Keep in mind that this is a baby ENGLISH Budgie weight, your babies will never get this chunky.

 

Beasley

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@PoukieBear haha! For the purpose it’s a perfect picture! Thank you! Ohh my yes that is a heavy baby budge! My littlest one is just a fraction of that!
 

Beasley

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Well I went in and talked to the store today, I’ve got these little angels until Tuesday

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It’s been awesome getting to see them through this stage of their lives. ❤
 

PoukieBear

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What happens after Tuesday? They are still too young to be on their own. They aren't weaned yet, and still need to be fed.
 

Beasley

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What happens after Tuesday? They are still too young to be on their own. They aren't weaned yet, and still need to be fed.
Actually, in all my lack of knowledge, I absolutely agree. The owner told me to separate them and place the bigger one in a cage and give her no more formula. I gave her a tiny bit last night, but her crop was full of seeds so I just let her have the spoon and eat whatever she wanted which was very little. I also offered the syringe but she wasn’t having any of that.

I’m a mess right now, angry, heartbroken, guilt ridden and confused. I fed them again at six, both had empty crops and were hungry and happy to eat the formula. When I came to feed them again a few hours later this morning, the larger one was at the bottom of the cage. She had food and water and was being fed or at least offered formula regularly. I don’t know if she needed to stay in the incubation tank where it was warmer I don’t know if she fell… I kept the perches very low. I do know that I recently had a professional air quality test done and all of my fids have been recently vet checked and are healthy. I feel like I failed my baby. The only thing that changed was me following new instructions from the store.

When I go in on Tuesday I’m not planning on taking the baby with me. I’m going to firmly recommend that I keep him until I know that he’s going to make it, and I’m only going to seek/run any further advice through this community first.
The store breeds/sells hand fed large parrots and finches/budgies none of whom get hand fed. I just don’t feel like that baby was ready to be put in a cage without its sibling. I trusted the owner and I feel like this is all my fault. This should not have happened. She was absolutely fine in the incubator with her brother. They had seeds, millet, a cuttlebone, a heater and constant access to warm formula.

I wasn’t even supposed to get attached and I’ve spent all day crying. I don’t own the baby, but if they demand him back I am beyond tempted to buy him just to see that he isn’t taken off formula and put in a cage to die or be sold prematurely.

Here are some snuggle pictures from last night, she was so healthy and beautiful. RIP baby girl, I love you and I am so sorry I failed you.



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Zara

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I´m so sorry for your loss, I know you were only doing what you were told. How heartbreaking. I know it´s not easy to lose a chick, no matter how much or little time you spent with him, it still hurts all the same.

I´m so furious at the owner! Who are they? a pets store owner?! How can they make you stop feeding the baby?! I just cannot understand!!! What awful advice/instructions to give you!

A baby cannot be eating formula twice a day today, and tomorrow nothing.
It is likely the baby was too cold and couldn´t digest the food.

I´m secretly wishing you would keep this chick... but no pressure...

Again, my thoughts are with you.

Ps, the chicks don´t need a cuttle bone.
 
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Matto

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I'm sorry for your loss. You're doing the best you can. What's the name of this idiotic pet store?
 

Matto

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I'm not sure what went wrong. Judging by the pictures, they are ready to be moved to a cage. It sounds unlikely that she couldn't digest the food. It may have been a genetic disease, I'm not sure.
 

PoukieBear

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OMG i'm so sorry to hear about this, my heart breaks for you!!!

That store owner is likely only wanting to make a quick sale, and to most people, the younger the bird the better..."For easier training". And for a store owner, the faster the sale, the better. This makes me so damn angry!

By looking at pics, I can see how or why someone would tell you to put the bird in it's own cage with perches, but being around 5 weeks old, they still do prefer the comfort of a nest or incubator when they need a break from the real world, and to sleep in at night. Trying to rush this process, and the weaning process usually ends up in disaster, as we are now witnessing. :(

Please do NOT blame yourself for this, and I applaud you for not releasing the other chick back to the store. Hold firm on your decision and do not back down! Even if they threaten you with some made up claim, you are not going to put that babies life at risk.

Please keep us posted.
 

Zara

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You could take the chick to a vet to try and find out what happened if you want closure.

Please do NOT blame yourself for this, and I applaud you for not releasing the other chick back to the store. Hold firm on your decision and do not back down! Even if they threaten you with some made up claim, you are not going to put that babies life at risk.
I second this. Stick to your guns, stand your ground.


Also, you may want to give the lone chick a little soft toy to snuggle with. Something small, with no loose parts/threads.

 
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