• Welcome to Avian Avenue! To view our forum with less advertisments please register with us.
    Memberships are free and it will just take a moment. Click here

Looking for Macaw Breeder

Rob

Walking the driveway
Joined
1/27/15
Messages
183
In regards to the original topic OP. I don't feel like there is anything wrong with getting a bird from a breeder if you don't want to rescue. I would suggest trying to find one you bond with that needs a home first but no one can make that choice for you. You are not the cause of the un-wanted parrot problem and people need to stop acting as if buying a bird is a irresponsible choice. You usually know nothing about a rescue bird, they are almost never cheaper in my experience and you are most likely inheriting someone else's mistakes. Your search should be about finding a bird you click with no matter where it's from rather than forcing yourself to rescue because of what people will think. You can't save them all. Honestly, I've learned that bird people can sometimes be the most hostile and non-understanding pet people I've ever seen.
 

macawpower58

Flying along the Avenue
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Avian Angel
Shutterbugs' Best
Joined
8/25/11
Messages
1,000,000
Location
Pennsylvania
If it's a Blue Throated you're set on, you may not have many choices.
I don't believe you can sell or buy them across state lines anymore.
I imagine breeders will be harder to find as time goes on.

As for the clipping. It's not the end all.
Many babies start out clipped and end up learning to fly decently.
It's not what most of us want or have, but I also don't agree with shaming those who do it as long as they're aware of the pros and cons.

I clipped my macaw when he became hormonally aggressive. He is not now clipped.

We do what's best for us, our families and our birds.
Each of us are different with different needs and different levels of parrot knowledge and handling know-how.
 

melissasparrots

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
1/9/11
Messages
4,081
Location
Iowa
If you simply must have a blue throat, you might be stuck with getting a clipped baby. Personally, I'd have more of a problem with it if we were talking about an african grey, cockatoo or even eclectus. My macaw was clipped prior to coming to me. It was kind of a blessing. She was allowed to fly at the breeder's house and clipped a couple days before being shipped to me. Baby macaws can be absolutely nuts and I'm not among the people that thinks clipping is innately traumatic. Clipping before weaning is more so as it can lead to weaning issues. I absolutely would not take home a clipped baby unweaned. There are far more important things than letting a macaw have its flight feathers around a small house where it will never be able to fly like they do in the wild anyway. I found with my hyacinth, I was able to give her more freedom on play gyms when she was clipped because she wasn't able to fly her way into trouble every few seconds.

That said, don't get hung up on blue throats being better just because they are more unique. I've heard a few people say blue and golds have sweeter temperaments. If getting a flighted baby is important, you can probably find someone if you are willing to go with a blue and gold instead. I've always thought blue and golds were the prettiest or one of the prettiest macaws anyway.
 

Shyra

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/21/09
Messages
1,519
My GW came from a pet shop and was always kept clipped. I brought him home at 18 months so he never learned to fledge. To this day his flying is awful even though I let his wings grow out. I do think the timing as to whether or not a bird is allowed to fledge makes a huge difference. We hear the same thing all the time if the bird isn't allowed to fledge they rarely learn to fly properly. Adding on to what Melissa said about not getting hung up on one species I would say the same about choosing between a baby an adult. I think with macaws sometimes getting one that is a little older in some ways is better especially for someone like me who was new to macaws. Babies go through so many stages just like a 2 to 3 year old and not all are easy. Depending on the bird's personality a baby can be a joy or a terror and how you manage them through those stages makes all the difference in what kind of relationship you will have. In older birds you get to see more of their personality to know if they will be a good fit. Babies, you get what you get and some people find they have a really hard time dealing with the different stages, especially the biting ones with those large beaks. Not against anyone getting a baby, only realize that some baby macaw's will test your patience in so many ways and you take your chances as to whether that baby will be an angel or what you will come to believe is a little demon. After a few years, it won't matter whether you brought home a baby, juvenile, or an adult macaw because regardless what age you got them they will forever be part of your family. Courtney, I hope you find the macaw that is right for you.
 

SandraK

Ripping up the road
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Avian Angel
Joined
3/21/11
Messages
1,000,000
Location
Palm Coast, FL. Carioca'55 when RJ was in GB.
Real Name
Sandra
Why do you feel sorry for me? I'm doing the best I can to keep my baby safe. We are all entitled to our opinions, and when I think it is safe for Ollie to have full flight, I will be excited to see her soar. But right now, it's not the right decision for us.

This has become so off topic from the original post - so let's get back to that.
If this breeder has the type of bird you are looking for, I don't think that the fact that it's already been clipped should stop you from adopting the bird you would like. If you want your bird to be flighted, the flight feathers will grow back.
By the time you decide it is safe for Ollie to soar she might not have the muscle strength or ability to do it. That would be my point. Good luck with your search.
 

Bokkapooh

Ripping up the road
Avenue Veteran
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
10/18/09
Messages
25,464
Location
Pacific Northwest
Real Name
Mercedez
Perhaps it wouldn't be so bad to be kept in the cage, you could visit every day. And see about taking the baby home unweaned. Explain your reasonings for wanting a flight baby macaw.

Personally I think it's nuts people clip baby parrots right around weaning. It makes them regress into simpering crying babies again in their new homes and tends to make them into nippy baby parrots because they're frustrated and cannot express themselves through mobility. They become utterly dependent upon scary new family in a new scary environment.

So I completely understand not wanting to clip your baby. My macaw can fly comfortably through a stair well and down a narrow hallway with ease and her wing span is bigger than the hallway. Clipped babies who regain flight feathers later in their development and adult hood do not fly like my macaw can. They are hesitant and scared and needy. Can't even turn sharp corners or flip in the air on the fly and make a sharp right angle to fly back. My macaw can. So I understand how you'd want a macaw who can do these things and be so flexible and agile. Clipped Birds, though beautiful, are not graceful and often times never gain this form of serenity and beauty that a flighted bird possesses.
 

cjy9375

Moving in
Joined
2/1/17
Messages
12
Real Name
Courtney Ferrell
Thank you everyone for your input so far. I did think about rescuing an adult BTM but I haven’t found any in the state of Michigan and like someone said you can’t cross state lines to purchase. I really am set on a BTM as the species of macaw that I want and not because it’s unique. There’s lots of little things that I like about the breed that make it a good fit for me.

So, I talked to the Greenparrot again and they agreed to not clip the wings but if they don’t clip the wings they won’t let it out of its cage. So what are your suggestions? Let them clip the wings so the bird can get out of its cage and be socialized. Or not clip the wings and it may not get the socialization and handling that it would get otherwise.

I personally would really like to keep her flighted but one of things I really like about the green parrot is how well socialized and friendly their babies are. So I’m waffling back and forth in the issue.

Keep in mind that live almost three hours away from the store so I would only be able to visit like once a week.

Thanks in advance.
 

Lady Jane

Ripping up the road
Avenue Veteran
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
8/25/12
Messages
26,570
Location
Maryland
Real Name
Dianne
There are ways to get a bird down from a high place. I bought a very long bird ladder and it works. I put the ladder up to them and say step up. Its easy. Most bird people make their home bird safe so we do not have to cut their ability to fly. I think it is a controversial subject in most avian environments, not just here. Here is a very well written article on this subject written by a very well known bird person.

Flock Call - Clipped Wings


I argued with myself for 3 months before clipping Butters' wings. She was young yet, fully fledged under our roof and at the ripe age of almost 2, a total handful. Not two hands full like Snickers, but nevertheless a hand full. Our vet strongly and kindly suggested a "conservative" clip. Which gives me pause here to remind us all that no man has the right to use words carelessly. Since when is cutting wings to remove flight abilities a conservative choice? But the term "conservative clip" does rest easier on the human mind.

But back Butters' attitude and the idea of a conservative clip being a solution. The real issue was my attitude and my control issues. She was being a fully flighted joyous and confident macaw. I was being impatient and wanting the quick fix. Alas, a quick fix is worth about as much. It's quick to remind me of my own selfish nature. So I took our joyous and confident ButterBean in for grooming, blood work and that "conservative clip".

I brought home an intimidated, confused and sad parrot. And I ached for her next molt to come in quickly. I cried for 2 days for what I had done to our girl. She was not our ButterBean until her next molt. I watched her confused heart and mind for a week. Her balance was off, her confidence removed and yes, she knew who brought this on her. Around the 9th day she found her way around her disability. And I watched her for months after fuss with the missing feather locations on both her wings. It was as though she were conjuring her body to create those feathers again. I tell you my experience for a parrot's perspective. I tell you this story because it is imperative, no matter the reasons, we understand that clipping wings is not to be taken lightly. It has a palpable impact on a parrot, no matter how they react and overcome their newly acquired disability. And make no mistake, this is a chosen disability we have brought on them.

There is no such thing as a conservative clip anymore than there is a pet parrot. There are real consequences for them physically and mentally. And yes they are quite adept at making do, and merging into their new normal. And yes, there are real reasons to do such a thing to a companion parrot. There are times and lifestyles that require it for their own health and safety. I make no argument against those times. I make an argument against the idea that it is no big deal and that it somehow magically keeps them safe and easily found if they are lost outside.

What happens when we remove flight, or partial flight feathers from our parrots via a clipping?

Balance is affected. And balance creates confidence. Confidence creates trust. And trust builds our relationships with our companion. Clipping wings is not a way to "bond with your parrot". It's a way to control our parrot so that it's easier to get them to do what we perceive as bonding. Which is simply obedience via no choice.

If our companion isn't flying, our companion isn't using the main element of mobility that their biology and physiology evolved to utilize. Muscle atrophy, affected metabolism, less demand on the respiratory system as it was built for, comes into play. We hamstrung a flying being who's body was structured to fly. They will become weaker.

There are discussions on both sides of the science fence on whether fully flighted parrots are healthier and have stronger immune systems. I tend to the example of humans and exercise. Humans who use their bodies as fully intended by their structure are healthier than humans who do not use their bodies as intended. It's 2017, sitting is the new smoking. I believe fully flighted parrots are healthier, stronger and have a stronger immune system than those who can not fly. I absolutely believe this idea inside the context of young parrots being allowed to fledge and fly for a few weeks before being clipped for the first time. Much like a baby being allowed to cry, to strengthen their lungs, diaphragm and respiratory system as a whole.

All this being said, if clipped wings are in your bird's lifestyle, then it is important to compensate that lost mobility and exercise with more nutrition, more ways for physical activity through deeper enrichment. I am not writing an indictment of wing clipping and those that choose the practice. I am writing a reminder to all that clipping wings is not a small agenda item. This is to be approached with a seriousness toward our companion's nature, personality and life quality.

Clipped wings do not mean your companion can not fly. They will find a way to gain airspace. But clipped wings on a companion that has "gotten out" and is now lost leaves a defenseless parrot. Some wing clips will cause a parrot to look injured in flight. A predator will pick up the idea that there is an easy meal. A companion with clipped wings lost outside will do their best to fly, and they will be vulnerable doing it.

A fully flighted parrot lost to the outside has mobility and escape on their side, and are no longer on a certain rung of the food chain. And yes, I've experienced one of my fully flighted parrots getting outside, twice. Kirby flew down from his tree with some coaxing and command work, and a banana. I know the terror. But I am glad he was fully flighted. Had he not been, the local cats would have had lunch, I have no doubt.

Clipping wings is a control choice. No more no less. It is rarely a choice for the benefit of a parrot. Our relationship with our companion requires we be honest about the clipping wings choice, and at the very least see it for what it is, and compensate to the best of our abilities for doing it to them. We are literally removing their very nature by doing it. We must respect that impact. It is 2017. We know round cages are horrible. We know sunflower seed only diets are a death sentence. We know peanuts can cause illness. We know parrots are self aware. We know parrots are not pets. We know so much, and are learning more every day through the sciences and the power of the internet. It's time our words and actions get updated as well.

I support the safety and lifestyle security found through clipping wings. I do. I support not clipping and delivering safety and lifestyle security through other avenues, as we do here in our home with our 8 companions. This is a very personal issue, and at times a point of contention. I choose to speak for the voice of the companions and set the humans point aside. After all, it's they who must modify and find a way to live without, not us.

 
Last edited:

aooratrix

Macawaholic
Super Moderator
Avenue Veteran
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
4/6/13
Messages
6,049
Real Name
Matthew
Very few people are raising blue throats now because of the ESA. It has made interstate sales illegal. If you travel to another state and pick up a baby, you've broken the law. Adoption is laudable and, in light of the number of parrots in rescues, shelters, etc. the best choice for acquiring a companion parrot. However, it's not the only choice, especially if you've got your heart set on a rare species like a blue throat. Just out of curiousity, why a blue throat?

I have 4 large macaws, including a BTM. Only one was a rehome, and he is the only one who's extremely appreciative/thankful/grateful for everything he gets. His personality shouldn't change much (he was 17 when I got him), unlike a baby. My other 3 came here as young birds, so their personalities have changed and will change over the years. And they are entitled brats. ;) With Petey, what you see is what you get. He's very consistent.

The bottom line is, if your life is stable, you have the financial resources for the largest cage that will fit in your home, quality food, tons of toys, nuts, and vetting, and can commit to a changing relationship (starting with a baby), you should get the bird you want. Period. You need to do what's best for to have the best relationship possible. It's very easy to pontificate or judge from the safety of a keyboard ;).

Daphne was clipped prior to coming here but had already been a strong flyer. Once her primaries, grew back, I worked with her on regaining flight. I encouraged her to flap on my arm and on various perches and gently tossed her onto beds and couches to give her safe opportunities to fly and build muscles. She flies today. Do most clipped birds want to fly, especially if they see other parrots flying? Yeah, I think so. Are they "traumatized" since they can't? That's a strong word and is couched in anthropomorphism. Did the bird refuse to eat, lose weight, act listless, display stereotypic behaviors because it couldn't fly? Probably not. We feel bad when those we love go without, whatever the situation.

All mine are flighted. My home and lifestyle accommodate that. And I believe birds should fly. They have wings! However, there are certainly situations where flying is just not safe. You have to do what you can do.

 

cjy9375

Moving in
Joined
2/1/17
Messages
12
Real Name
Courtney Ferrell
I want a BTM for a whole list of reasons.
I like that they are smaller than other larger macaws. I believe I read somewhere that they are the second smallest of the large macaws. and since my Harlequin is quite large I like the idea of something that's about the size of a Military Macaw or maybe a bit smaller. I love the coloring I think it's beautiful and as much as I think blue and golds are pretty, there something about the particular shade of blue on a BTM that I really like, I especially like that the facial feathers are blue. They are supposed to be very active and mechanical and while I know that it could be frustrating at times to deal with I like the idea of getting a macaw that is more active. Plus if they are really as mechanical as everyone claims it will allow for the ability to train some of those behaviors.

I'm going to explain a bit more why this issue is kind of a sticking point for me. I believe that it is important for birds to develop flight skills while they're young. It's much easier for them to pick up and learn flight skills when they are young. I'm going to equate this to human development so please forgive, if your daughter wants to be a gymnast you would have her learn gymnastics while she is young because once she reaches adulthood learning those skills, while not impossible, is much harder.

With regards to clipping. Everyone has there own opinion on how much harm it causes and the pros and cons and I'm not trying to turn this into a debate on clipping versus not clipping in general. I'm talking about in my specific case, if you know that I want my bird to not be clipped, what is your advice? Once the baby is weaned and home with me I won't clip it, so from that point on, once the feathers grow out it will be fully flighted. The question is do I clip for the period between when it's fully fledged until it's weaned and can come home with me? and potentially stunt her flight skill development. Or do I not clip her wings and potentially stunt her social development? of course, if they won't let it out of its cage how much flight skill is she even going to develop... You see my conundrum? Because macaws take so long to wean I want to make the decision that will be best for her development long-term. And since both social development and flight development are important, I'm trying to balance between the two. Does that make sense? If you were in my position what would you do?

Thank you :)
 

Just-passn-thru

Biking along the boulevard
Avenue Veteran
Mayor of the Avenue
Joined
1/13/16
Messages
5,546
Location
Southern California
Real Name
Suzanne
As for Macaws Blue Throat Mac's are my favorite too. I think a baby should be allowed to fledge and be weaned before clipping and sent off to their new home. I'm not against clipping especially if being transported and adjusting to new environments. All of my birds came to me clipped and have since regrown their flights. And none are any worse off for it. Most Breeders clip babys wings before allowing them out the door to their new home.
 

aooratrix

Macawaholic
Super Moderator
Avenue Veteran
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
4/6/13
Messages
6,049
Real Name
Matthew
I want a BTM for a whole list of reasons.
I like that they are smaller than other larger macaws. I believe I read somewhere that they are the second smallest of the large macaws. and since my Harlequin is quite large I like the idea of something that's about the size of a Military Macaw or maybe a bit smaller. I love the coloring I think it's beautiful and as much as I think blue and golds are pretty, there something about the particular shade of blue on a BTM that I really like, I especially like that the facial feathers are blue. They are supposed to be very active and mechanical and while I know that it could be frustrating at times to deal with I like the idea of getting a macaw that is more active. Plus if they are really as mechanical as everyone claims it will allow for the ability to train some of those behaviors.

They are definitely mechanical. I have found that nothing but Expandable Habitats toy hangers work for toys, and he defeats them but rarely. They tend to be smaller than militaries; only red fronts are usually smaller. Harry is gifted at escape and taking things apart. With a few days and concerted effort, he can unscrew a nut I tighten with a power tool. You'll have to be much more creative with a BTM than your harlequin in terms of toys, securing the cage, etc. And he's my only mac that can open a macadamia nut. He quickly destroys 99% of toys, too. Only my GW destroys wood and toy parts faster.

He was extremely hands-on, like a cockatoo, as a baby but hit about 5 and became moody. He just turned 6 and is becoming cuddly again. And he doesn't talk in front of me except rarely in a small, soft voice.

I'm going to explain a bit more why this issue is kind of a sticking point for me. I believe that it is important for birds to develop flight skills while they're young. It's much easier for them to pick up and learn flight skills when they are young. I'm going to equate this to human development so please forgive, if your daughter wants to be a gymnast you would have her learn gymnastics while she is young because once she reaches adulthood learning those skills, while not impossible, is much harder.

With regards to clipping. Everyone has there own opinion on how much harm it causes and the pros and cons and I'm not trying to turn this into a debate on clipping versus not clipping in general. I'm talking about in my specific case, if you know that I want my bird to not be clipped, what is your advice? Once the baby is weaned and home with me I won't clip it, so from that point on, once the feathers grow out it will be fully flighted. The question is do I clip for the period between when it's fully fledged until it's weaned and can come home with me? and potentially stunt her flight skill development. Or do I not clip her wings and potentially stunt her social development? of course, if they won't let it out of its cage how much flight skill is she even going to develop... You see my conundrum? Because macaws take so long to wean I want to make the decision that will be best for her development long-term. And since both social development and flight development are important, I'm trying to balance between the two. Does that make sense? If you were in my position what would you do?

All mine are flighted, so that tells you what I think about that ;) If you want a flighted bird, I say don't clip, period. Neither Harry nor Annie were clipped, and they're my most gifted, athletic flyers. If you are able to visit weekly, the bird will know you, and you won't have an issue with the social. Ask them if the breeder they're getting the baby from would wean a flighted bird for you. The breeder MUST be in Michigan, or they're breaking the law. Would they be willing to let you visit at closing, so the bird could fly? IME, many pet stores don't want to deal with flighted birds because they're more work. And I've heard of multiple instances where a store got someone's money, they fell in love with the bird, and then found a clipped bird on one of the visits close to homecoming. I'd keep them as an option but keep looking.

Thank you :)

 

cjy9375

Moving in
Joined
2/1/17
Messages
12
Real Name
Courtney Ferrell
Thanks for your advice! That's is exactly the information I was looking to get. Thank you very much for your input. :)
 

Begone

Joyriding the Neighborhood
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Avenue Spotlight Award
Shutterbugs' Best
Joined
11/29/12
Messages
15,651
I believe that it is important for birds to develop flight skills while they're young. It's much easier for them to pick up and learn flight skills when they are young.
And I will also say that some of that flying skill they can only learn natural when they are in the beginning of flight. That means that they never had a reason to be afraid to not manage to fly because some clipped their wings.
To have great natural flying skills they must fly a lot when they are babies, they must be building confidence, strong heart and lungs, and also strong muscles for flying.
I'm going to equate this to human development so please forgive, if your daughter wants to be a gymnast you would have her learn gymnastics while she is young because once she reaches adulthood learning those skills, while not impossible, is much harder.
Great comparison. :)
I will also say that to be a gymnastic (with skills) is impossible if you are older. (I have been a gymnastic, so I know what I'm talking about)

I have two Pionus girls and none of them was ever clipped.
My Akela was wild and parent raised when I got her at 11 weeks old, (born in a big outside aviary) and she has been flying here since then.
She has skills I can tell you. :) You must see her to believe it. She can manage to fly through a door that is only open 10 cm.
And she can stop in the air and turn around and fly back. She is amazing. I love watching her flying! ♥

Then we have Eliy. Eliy is a rescue, she hasn't been clipped. But as her owners put her in a to small cage, and never let her out enough (that was to spoil her they said) she never learn to fly like Akela did. And she is still learning every day, but that kind of confidence like Akela has as it is her natural transportation she will never have.
You can only learn that natural when you are still young enough.
If someone here that are used to see a bird fly that earlier was clipped you probably would have thought that Eliy was an excellent flyer, but as I never had a clipped bird I can see the different. Eliy is a great flyer, but she don't have (and sadly never will) skills like Akela have.

So you also believe that it is important for birds to develop flight skills when they are young. :)
Of course you should never buy a baby from a breeder that don't understand that.
They don't listen to the babies needs, if they did they never would have clipped them.
As I see it, clipping birds wings must have an end, and as long as we continue buying birds with clipped wings we accept what the breeder say that they will learn to fly later.
So that you refuses to buy from that kind of breeder makes me really happy! :)

Good Luck in finding a new flying family member! ♥

And also, don't be afraid to buy a baby that is parent raised. You will get a 100% bird, and not a bird that is characterized on people.
I will say that my Akela is the most easy bird I ever had. Not needy, very independent, don't care at all of what I'm wearing, what I'm doing, or if I had clipped or colored my hair.
She is loving, never angry, very playful and love interactions, but not in a needy way. And yes, she is really tame, so their is no need to have a hand raised baby.
 

finchly

Cruising the avenue
Avenue Veteran
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
5/16/14
Messages
12,708
Location
SW Florida
Real Name
Finchly
It's not that I'm afraid of her flying into things - my apartment set up is a bit wonky, with a lot of high up nooks and spaces where I would not be able to get her down from if I needed to. If there was an emergency where I needed to grab Ollie and leave, I would be terrified of her being scared, flying somewhere I can't get her, and having something horrible happen. We also live in a city where if I want to take her outside (she is harness training), I would feel much safer knowing she cannot fly away to the top of some building where I cannot get her. Once I own a house with more room for her, we will let her be fully flighted.

I'm glad your babies are learning how to fly - they're all small birds, correct? I think that a factor in whether to clip or not to clip is definitely size of the bird and the relative space available. In the same size room, cockatiels have a lot more space to fly than a macaw would.
I have extremely high ceilings too, and shelves or various windows up there. I get not being able to get your bird down. Actually my first home had a high ceiling, and a fireplace..... so my first cockatiel would go waaaay up to the brick fireplace...no way to get him down!

Anyway it is easy to say “that’s wrong” but when you are the one standing on the floor staring up at a naughty birdie who is giving you the stink eye? That’s when you say “If I ever get you down, I’m clipping your wings, buddy!”

Mine are not clipped, except the new one who came that way, and the tiel girls who got a hack job and may not get their wingies back.
 
Top