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Gcc biting problem

Farzad

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Hello,
We have a flock of 1 gcc, 1 senegal and 1 tiel
All are hand fed by me from when they were 15 days max
They all like me but senegal loves me very much
Anyways, our gcc, koochool, is 9 months now and he is biting my wife in face, eye brow, hand, arm and... And he is biting very hard
He does not bite in my presence as he is afraid when i am around i am kinda the BOSS for him, he does not step on my hand and flies away if i try to catch him
But he is ok with my wife and lets her catch him or steps up on her hand but he uses every single and little opportunity to bite her

Do you guys have any idea what to do?
 

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Mizzely

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I would not provide him the opportunity to bite.
 

Mizzely

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So when the bird comes out of the cage, he immediately launches at your wife and starts biting?
 

ode.to.parrots

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I think giving us some more details may help us better help you. Could you describe a specific, recent example of a time your conure bit your wife? How did she respond to the bite? I'm talking about ONE specific example, just to give us a better idea of what's going on.
 

Farzad

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So when the bird comes out of the cage, he immediately launches at your wife and starts biting?
Yes, exactly
I think giving us some more details may help us better help you. Could you describe a specific, recent example of a time your conure bit your wife? How did she respond to the bite? I'm talking about ONE specific example, just to give us a better idea of what's going on.
Ok, let me describe it:
Yesterday my wife brought him out of his cage, he flew around couple of times then landed on my wife's head, then when he became sure that i am not looking at him, he launched and attacked my wife's eye which ended in biting her eyebrow
She screamed and started crying out of fear and pain (she is pregnant and that makes her more sensetive)
Anyways we managed to catch him with a scarf and put him back to cage, he tried to bite her even when my wife was putting him back in cage

What u suggest?
He has become ultra aggressive to my wife
 

Donna turner

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Wondering how or why he is afraid of you. Wonder if this is misplaced aggression. Has he been being sweet to your wife before the attracts started? My bird got mad with me the other day and the rest of the day she attacked my hands. Took me that day and the next to get her over her anger. Had to keep my hands hidden and be patient and calm with her. Did your bird start out this way or change. If he used to be nice you may have to sort of start over as if he is untame.
 

ode.to.parrots

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Okay, this gives me a better picture.

You say that he bites her when you are sure you are not looking at him. Well, when he bites her, you certainly turn and look at her, right? Oh boy, he's got your attention! And he's got your wife's attention! Even though the screaming and crying might be a negative response, it is still a response and that is what your bird is seeking.
Birds often don't associate "Oh, I did this bad thing, now they are going to wrap me in a scarf and put me back on the cage, maybe I shouldn't bite again." The cause-effect scenario is more immediate with them. It's more like "I bit her and now I have everyone's attention! Yay! Wait, what are you doing? Why are you putting me back? Hey, this isn't fair, I what did I do?" Total disconnect. Which is why positive punishment does not work.

Positive punishment is when you introduce something to the bird that the bird does not like. Such as getting wrapped in a scarf.
You are also using negative punishment when you put him back in the cage. With negative punishment, you are taking something away that he finds pleasurable, which in this case is your attention and out-of-cage time.

Now, negative punishment can be useful by removing both you and your wife's attention immediately after the behavior. Your wife needs to do her best NOT to give a response the next time your conure bites her. She shouldn't say anything. She should just quietly put him down (on his play stand, on the table, whatever is the CLOSEST SAFE SURFACE to wherever she is) and turn his back to him for a few minutes. You should act as though nothing has happened and continue doing what you are doing. Do NOT look at him or give him attention for the biting behavior.

There is more that you can do beyond this point to make it a lasting behavior, but this would be the first step.

That being said, I am not an expert. This is just my interpretation of the situation. If you DO want to learn more from an expert, I recommend you check out Barbara Heidenreich's webinar (#3, on biting and aggressive behavior). I have not watched it (yet), but I have seen her other webinars she is considered the best in the field. She uses positive reinforcement (you did a good thing, here is a treat!) in order to shape behavior.

I hope this helps! Please keep us posted, and if you have any other questions or concerns, please ask away!

Edit: I almost forgot the link for the webinars!!! Here it is: http://www.goodbirdinc.com/parrot-store-digital.htm
Edit (again): I also forgot to mention that webinar #8 is free - it is more general and talks specifically about rescue birds, but it is still helpful
 

Farzad

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Wondering how or why he is afraid of you. Wonder if this is misplaced aggression. Has he been being sweet to your wife before the attracts started? My bird got mad with me the other day and the rest of the day she attacked my hands. Took me that day and the next to get her over her anger. Had to keep my hands hidden and be patient and calm with her. Did your bird start out this way or change. If he used to be nice you may have to sort of start over as if he is untame.
He is afraid of me because i treat them if they got sick and he has seen what i can do to other birds
For example Nina (my mother-in-law's female gcc) had an infection on her feet, i had to treat her feet and the treatmentwas painful Nina is my gcc's gf, and...
 

Farzad

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Okay, this gives me a better picture.

You say that he bites her when you are sure you are not looking at him. Well, when he bites her, you certainly turn and look at her, right? Oh boy, he's got your attention! And he's got your wife's attention! Even though the screaming and crying might be a negative response, it is still a response and that is what your bird is seeking.
Birds often don't associate "Oh, I did this bad thing, now they are going to wrap me in a scarf and put me back on the cage, maybe I shouldn't bite again." The cause-effect scenario is more immediate with them. It's more like "I bit her and now I have everyone's attention! Yay! Wait, what are you doing? Why are you putting me back? Hey, this isn't fair, I what did I do?" Total disconnect. Which is why positive punishment does not work.

Positive punishment is when you introduce something to the bird that the bird does not like. Such as getting wrapped in a scarf.
You are also using negative punishment when you put him back in the cage. With negative punishment, you are taking something away that he finds pleasurable, which in this case is your attention and out-of-cage time.

Now, negative punishment can be useful by removing both you and your wife's attention immediately after the behavior. Your wife needs to do her best NOT to give a response the next time your conure bites her. She shouldn't say anything. She should just quietly put him down (on his play stand, on the table, whatever is the CLOSEST SAFE SURFACE to wherever she is) and turn his back to him for a few minutes. You should act as though nothing has happened and continue doing what you are doing. Do NOT look at him or give him attention for the biting behavior.

There is more that you can do beyond this point to make it a lasting behavior, but this would be the first step.

That being said, I am not an expert. This is just my interpretation of the situation. If you DO want to learn more from an expert, I recommend you check out Barbara Heidenreich's webinar (#3, on biting and aggressive behavior). I have not watched it (yet), but I have seen her other webinars she is considered the best in the field. She uses positive reinforcement (you did a good thing, here is a treat!) in order to shape behavior.

I hope this helps! Please keep us posted, and if you have any other questions or concerns, please ask away!

Edit: I almost forgot the link for the webinars!!! Here it is: http://www.goodbirdinc.com/parrot-store-digital.htm
Edit (again): I also forgot to mention that webinar #8 is free - it is more general and talks specifically about rescue birds, but it is still helpful
Thank you for your detailed reply
The only problem is that my wife is afraid if koochool goes for her eye...
 

ode.to.parrots

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Thank you for your detailed reply
The only problem is that my wife is afraid if koochool goes for her eye...
She should either close her eyes if Koochool is anywhere near her face or wear glasses or something until you can get the ball rolling with training. If she could try to ask him to step up and move him away from her face before you divert your attention elsewhere, then he won't be so close to her eyes.

I have never personally dealt with a problem this extreme, and for that reason I hope you check out the Barbara Hendenreich webinar, but even so, I hope this helps.

Edit: I think it is also important to note that birds do sense fear and know when people are anxious around them. Your GCC may be feeding off of your wife's nervousness every time he is around. He may be taking advantage of her fears, which is why he bites her and not you. This is all a possibility, but I'm not sure.
 

Monica

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To me, it sounds like you haven't trained or worked with your conure correctly. He is afraid of you to the point that he avoids you, but not quite as afraid of your wife. That said, he doesn't know how to interact with humans, so he bites. That's all he knows how to do.


IMO, cage him. Start from square one as if he was a rehome bird that you know nothing about. You didn't hand raise him, you haven't had him for 9 months. He is an unknown. You don't want to get bit? Or have your wife bitten? Then don't let him out of the cage!


Rather, any time either one of you walk by the cage, drop a favorite treat in the cage. Have time to sit next to the cage? Try feeding treats or millet through the cage bars. If he's willing, start target training him to walk around the inside of the cage for a treat on the outside. Once he's good at doing that behavior, then try target training with him still in the cage but the door open. Then try targeting him out of the cage and working on target training around the outside of the cage. Then work away from the cage.

Do not force him to do something he doesn't want to do if you don't need to force the behavior. You and your wife need to get re-acquainted with him, in a different kind of way.


Plenty of training info in the following thread!

Free Training Resources | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum
 

BrianB

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I've been working with my little one to stop him biting my ear. He wants to be on my shoulder all the time. I just can't do that, but if he's on his play stand in the office with me, I'll take him with me if I go to another room or the restroom. I'm not taking the chance of leaving him alone with a cat in the house. He likes to bite my ear. The first time I tell him "No Bites" and he moves away. If he keeps it up I get him onto my finger. He stays there for a few minutes and then back on my shoulder. If he bites again, back onto the finger. If he bites my finger, then I make him stop to another finger. I figure if I keep his feet busy, there isn't any time for him to use his beak on me. Then back on the shoulder. I do this if I'm moving around the house. If I'm in the office, then I use his play stand for the same thing. Once in a while he will get wound up and just keep biting either my finger or my ear. At that point there is no dealing with him, or distracting him, so I put him back in the cage and leave the room until he settles down. It seems like it's going to be a work in progress. We had to clip him for his own safety, so he does use his beak for leverage when he's moving around. He never puts a lot of pressure when he's doing this, so I think he gets part of it, the rest I'm still working on. He's also not happy that I'm hand feeding a little one at the moment, so some of it may be jealousy too. I'll be looking to find the little one a home in 3 weeks or so. I'm hoping the biting goes when the baby has moves on to a permanent home.
 

Monica

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@BrianB It sounds like it's time for a different approach.


I've been working with my little one to stop him biting my ear. He likes to bite my ear. The first time I tell him "No Bites" and he moves away. If he keeps it up I get him onto my finger. He stays there for a few minutes and then back on my shoulder. If he bites again, back onto the finger. If he bites my finger, then I make him stop to another finger. I figure if I keep his feet busy, there isn't any time for him to use his beak on me. Then back on the shoulder.
Seems like he's getting mixed signals but he's not learning to stop.

How about this.... ask yourself, if you don't want him biting or nibbling your ear, what do you want him to do instead?

Instead of biting your ear, can he.... play with a food toy? forage for food? play with a 'birdy necklace' that you wear? What alternative behavior can he do that keeps you both happy? And how can you best reward this new behavior so he keeps it up?

Alternatively, keep him off your shoulder.


Once in a while he will get wound up and just keep biting either my finger or my ear. At that point there is no dealing with him, or distracting him, so I put him back in the cage and leave the room until he settles down.
Might sound stupid... but the best way to stop a bird from biting is to not get bit in the first place. This can be done by learning to read the bird's body language and backing off before the bite occurs, training an alternate behavior that is incompatible to biting and not putting the bird in a situation that you know will result in a bite.

What it all comes down to is knowing your bird, becoming in tune with their body language, and keeping them busy with new behaviors. Trick training can be a great way to teach new behaviors that are more reliable than being bitten! Things such as turn around, shake head, pick up an object and place it somewhere, retrieve an object, etc.
 

Farzad

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Monica thank you for your reply,
But he is not afraid of my wife at all, my wife became pregnant and accordingly some of her attention dropped
Specially at early weeks she was sleepy, bored and... So she could not give our gcc the attention he needed.

So i think koochool is either jealous or even mad at her

And for me, i am the treating and healing person when it comes to a sick or injured parrot specially with koochool's girl friend (my mother-in-law gcc) which had feet injury few months back
After that injury and how i had to cure it both koochool and nina are afraid of me
 

Shinobi

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First I suggest that your wife wears a hat that covers her head and ears plus safety glasses whenever you let out Koochool. I don't think that having a bird that is afraid of you and attacking your wife is good. It doesn't have the foundations for a trusting relationship. I would look into clicker training. At this present time we only have two birds both Eclectus one male and one female. The male we got at 3 months old and he's will sit on our shoulders preening our ears and eyebrows. will step up from inside and outside his cage. lift his wings so we can check them out. hold out each leg and allow us to clip and file his claws.

Angel is a rehome, 5 years and has some behavioural problems. This was due to been left outside with very little human interaction, (3 years). Anyway in the beginning I took a few bites that drew blood. But I never gave up and there is still more to do.But she is now stepping up and down from within and outside the cage. not biting and will happily sit on my shoulder.

BITING IS NOT A NATURAL CONFLICTS RESOLUTIONS OR COMMUNICATIONS IN BIRDS. Instead they are handled with body language and vocalizations. They convey their feelings beforehand or will fly off to avoid physical contact. If needed, the beak is a protection against predators such as snakes and raptors or if it feels cornered and frighten then the need to bite will be from the natural instinct of self -preservation. But not against others in their own flock. In their natural environments, competition and/ or conflict between parrots rarely escalates to physical violence. Instead, they vocalize (scream) and/or use body language by strutting, posturing, and fluffing feathers to make themselves look bigger. Beaks are used for climbing, eating, playing (wrestling) and preening... not for biting another flock member.

I was told many years ago not to use the earthquake method. (Shake your hand when the bird goes to bite). When your bird is on your hand don't shake your hands to unbalance the bird has this will cause trust issues between your hand and the bird. This person told me the idea is to make your hands a safe and trusted place for your birds and if you shake your hand to unbalance the bird then the bird will come to see your hand as unsafe and will learn to distrust your hands. If your bird views your hand has unsafe and distrusts your hand it will more likely bite the hand, then fly away. The use of gloves can also cause problems further down the line. It would probably be better to find out what is triggering the bite and there are many different types of triggers. Watch the eyes. (pinning)

Just keep in mind that patience is key. Never mistreatment a bird who bites. Birds remember mistreatment, and they hold grudges. Any interaction you have with your bird should be bonding and trust-building. Parrots and other animals learn best when wanted behaviour is rewarded right as it occurs and BAD behaviour is not. (It’s that simple).
I tolerate the bite, which can be really hard at times. Under NO circumstances should you yell. Instead say No biting or naughty bird in a firm and displeased voice and give the bird a very dirty look. Show the bird your displeasure by giving it a REALLY DIRTY LOOK ("The Evil Eye"). Serious -- you have to look at it as if it were the lowest of the low, or pond scum, or something you might find stuck to the bottom of your shoe. Parrots are extremely empathetic creatures who watch our facial expressions closely. He will understand your displeasure if you give him a tremendously dirty look. The bird will understand that you are unhappy and will try very hard not to do it again.

Do not leave the room. If the bird bit you because it wants you to go away, leaving the room is what the bird wants. Therefore, you are teaching the bird that by biting, you will leave. This is a learnt bad behaviour. Easy to do, hard to undo.

I don’t put my birds back in the cage has I feel this makes for resentment. Instead I put the bird on its stand and scold it.

For the record, in the two and half years that we had Marlin, our Alexandrine Parakeet I was bitten hard once. I put him on the stand and scolded him and after that he never bit anyone else. This happened when he was around 7 months old. Henry our male Eclectus did the same and I also put him on the bird stand and scolded him and he hasn’t bitten since. In fact, I trust him enough to have him sit on my shoulder.

But if you make a show out of being bitten, then the bird will find it quite entertaining and can be encourage to bite. Again this is called learnt bad behaviour.
So the parrot will nip again, because the human inadvertently rewarded it for nipping by yelling. Sooner or later, the experimental nips will actually hurt the human (emotionally as well as physically), and the human's response becomes, yelling something to the effect of "YOU BAD BIRD, YOUR MOMMY (or DADDY) LOVES YOU, HOW COULD YOU BITE YOUR MOMMY (or DADDY)??!??!! The bird doesn't understand what's happening here, of course..... It thinks this is a wonderful new game. You know, bite a finger and your person makes lots of LOUD and WONDERFUL noises.... Bite hard enough and your person will also jump around... Bonus points…… This becomes learnt bad behaviour and they will actively hunt out skin to play this wonderful game of entertainment.

You can use a Toy/treat as a distraction, But it's just that 'a distraction'. It's not really teaching the bird acceptable behaviours. What you're really teaching the bird, is that by biting, it gets a toy/treat. Again learnt bad behaviour.

Contrary to human beliefs, parrots think yelling is a fantastic and fun response and it will actually reinforce the behaviour. Parrots really enjoy it when humans yell and screamed at them. Parrots often scream simply for the fun of it so it is a fallacy to think they perceive that yelling or screaming is a reprimand. On the contrary, they generally interpret yelling and screaming as positive feed-back. This is what called The Drama Reward.
 

Farzad

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Thank you for your time and reply shinobi,
First i must say, i dont see koochool as a bird, he is onw of our family member, he is my son, i have raised him since he was few days old, i woke up every 2 hours to feed him and we gave him the love we could
I cant be mad at him, i'm just afraid he can hurt my wife (who loves him)
I Cant even clip his wing feathers (many vets recommended)
We have started to give him more attention and see if it works
 

Shinobi

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Thank you for your time and reply shinobi,
First i must say, i dont see koochool as a bird, he is onw of our family member, he is my son, i have raised him since he was few days old, i woke up every 2 hours to feed him and we gave him the love we could
I cant be mad at him, i'm just afraid he can hurt my wife (who loves him)
I Cant even clip his wing feathers (many vets recommended)
We have started to give him more attention and see if it works


While I agree that our animals are family members, they still display their animal behaviours and instincts. I wouldn't clip his wings. Instead interact and train him. Birds need lots of mental simulation. Foraging toys and trick training will help.
Good luck.
 

rockybird

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I think it's great that you don't want your bird to be cagebound and that you want him to be a part of the family.

You say your wife is taking him out less. Could he be mad at her for not taking her out? My conure could really hold a grudge and has a little temper (much better now that she is older). When I came home from work years ago, if I did not IMMEDIATELY come to the cage and let her out, she would bite me when I finally did. We are not talking about a long delay either - maybe 5 mins. From when I walked in the door, but this was not acceptable to her. She would LATCH onto my hand as she was trying to train ME.

In many ways they are similar to two year old, and he may be acting out his anger. Can your wife let him out more often? Give him more attn. and include him in as much as you can. Have him out with you both when you have breakfast, lunch, dinner...let him play on the bathroom counter while you shower and get ready for work (keep the toilet lid closed), etc. It will become routine. I bet you will see a difference!
 

Farzad

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Thank you for reply, Rockybird
We have started to let him out MORE often :D
He is kinda bully, we are moving to a new apartment and currently we are packing, and he is trying to help us by make HOLES in every pack :D
and you think you can stop him?
if you tell him loudly to STOP or DONT!!!
he will fly above cupboards and starts screaming to show he is angry!!!!
and if you tell him to step up and play with his toys, he taps on the packs by his beak and will not step up!
anyways Koochool is our little BULLY GCC and we love him this way :D
the only problem remains that i can not catch him!!! he flies away or around the house to run away from me !!!
specially since few days ago he goes under dining table right in the middle so that i cant reach him !!!!!
 
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