Pictures Crazy Bird Lady needs expert help!

[Marina Engan]

I sat and studied my little Anastacia ... There is something that doesn't add up.
I thought she is WFL, but when I photographed her now, her eyes deep red and she has little color on flight feathers and tail feathers + pattern on the tail feathers.
She has a greenish stain on one wing. I thought it was a smudge, but it will not disappear. It does not get weaker in color. It is two small feathers . She also seem to have some grey near her eyes.
What is she?
Her parents are Lutino and Lutino Pearl.
All images are of Anastacia.

And I also discovered something else today.
When I moved two of my WFL hens out to the terrace, I saw in broad daylight that they have a black pupil and gray iris.
That's not true to WFL. Both girls seem to have weak color and pattern on the tail feathers.
I am quite confused...
Are they Clear Pied or Cinnamon Lutinos?
Their parents are said to be WFL, but I bought them as adults, so I can't be 100% sure. One of them has had clutches of WFL(?).

If they are Clear Pied or Cinnamon Lutino or something else, how does it affect the breeding?
Does anybody know?

 

[Marina Engan]

Look at my "WFL" Cuqui... He has 2 small grey feathers on his cheek... And he has a diluted color on his wings and tail feathers. The picture of his tail feathers doesn't show the coloration clearly, it was difficult to get a good light for that pic...

I am fascinated by the genetics, but I don't understand it. I have one WFL hen who is totally white and the difference between her and these "WFL's" is palpable...

 

[zoo mom]

I know nothing about color mutations but they are beautiful. @Monica ,@expressmailtome

 

[cassiesdad]

Sorry I can't help you regarding the mutations...all I can say is that your tiels are beautiful...

 

[Marina Engan]

I know nothing about color mutations but they are beautiful. @Monica ,@expressmailtome

Oh, thank you! I'm totally in love!

 

[Marina Engan]

Sorry I can't help you regarding the mutations...all I can say is that your tiels are beautiful...

Thanks a lot! It's so nice to hear somebody say that my babies are beautiful Just like when my son was little... and even now

 

[Monica]

Anastasia could be a Cinnamon Whiteface Lutino. Red eyes and color in flights and tail seem to point to that.

Cuqui might also be a cinnamon whtieface lutino although dark eyes throwing me off... if clear pied, even if he was cinnamon, I don't think the color would "bleed through" like it does in lutinos. Not sure about those head feathers, either... I mean, I can't tell for a fact that he has dark feathers there... kind of looks like his ear is showing through.


As far as your dark eyed hens... well, hard to say without being able to see them and knowing their genetics. Inos are *supposed* to have dark eyes. They might be ruby red, but generally speaking, they should look like any other cockatiel's eyes! It's when you throw in mutations such as cinnamon, pied and whiteface that it screws with their eye color!


Also, this is where a black light comes in handy!

Lutino - Just Cockatiels!

 

[Marina Engan]

The answer... as far as I know at the moment. I'm going to check it out with a genetics specialist as soon as possible...

I have learned a lot today by reading about genetics and what I've come up with is that the two gray-eyed is Whiteface Clear Pied and Cuqui seems to be White Faced Lutino Clear Pied possibly White Faced Lutino Clear Cinnamon Pied.
My Anastacia whom I thought was WFL is WF Clear Cinnamon Pied. It is her plum red eyes and small gray feathers that's the give away here. Everybody are "hidden colored" and it's so amazing because it looks as if I have several variants. And this is going to change my planned breeding in an exciting way.

Life with tiels is so rewarding and I learn something new every day.

 

[Marina Engan]

Anastasia could be a Cinnamon Whiteface Lutino. Red eyes and color in flights and tail seem to point to that.

Cuqui might also be a cinnamon whtieface lutino although dark eyes throwing me off... if clear pied, even if he was cinnamon, I don't think the color would "bleed through" like it does in lutinos. Not sure about those head feathers, either... I mean, I can't tell for a fact that he has dark feathers there... kind of looks like his ear is showing through.


As far as your dark eyed hens... well, hard to say without being able to see them and knowing their genetics. Inos are *supposed* to have dark eyes. They might be ruby red, but generally speaking, they should look like any other cockatiel's eyes! It's when you throw in mutations such as cinnamon, pied and whiteface that it screws with their eye color!


Also, this is where a black light comes in handy!

Lutino - Just Cockatiels!

It seems like we wrote at the same time

Cuqui has two very clear small grey feathers at the cheek... I have checked it very closely... And I got to feel his beak because of it Serves me right he says

So we are on teh same page you and I

Thank you!

 

[Marina Engan]

I feel quite proud that I got this far today... I am new to genetics so I have been digging the net, studying photos and descriptions... And it's clear that I'm on the right path to myself

 

[Marina Engan]

Anastasia could be a Cinnamon Whiteface Lutino. Red eyes and color in flights and tail seem to point to that.

Cuqui might also be a cinnamon whtieface lutino although dark eyes throwing me off... if clear pied, even if he was cinnamon, I don't think the color would "bleed through" like it does in lutinos. Not sure about those head feathers, either... I mean, I can't tell for a fact that he has dark feathers there... kind of looks like his ear is showing through.


As far as your dark eyed hens... well, hard to say without being able to see them and knowing their genetics. Inos are *supposed* to have dark eyes. They might be ruby red, but generally speaking, they should look like any other cockatiel's eyes! It's when you throw in mutations such as cinnamon, pied and whiteface that it screws with their eye color!


Also, this is where a black light comes in handy!

Lutino - Just Cockatiels!

I bought what I thought was a black light the other day... a waste of money! Not the real deal. I don't know what to look for in spanish... so I'll keep on looking. I really want/need one!

 

[Monica]

What happens when you turn on the black light in a dark room?


Without test breeding, you may not be able to know if your white tiels are pied or not.


If Cuqui does indeed have grey feathers, then Cuqui is not an Ino! Rather, a heavy pied! Not quite clear, but close!

 

[Marina Engan]

What happens when you turn on the black light in a dark room?


Without test breeding, you may not be able to know if your white tiels are pied or not.


If Cuqui does indeed have grey feathers, then Cuqui is not an Ino! Rather, a heavy pied! Not quite clear, but close!

Thank you! I'm grateful for all help and insight I might get
When I turn on the light in a totally dark room, it has a faint shade of blue... that's all.

 

[Monica]

I wonder if that would be enough for the purpose required... lol Best way to find out is to shine it on your white cockatiels! See if any of their markings stand out more under the light.


I have 2, if not 3 black lights. 1 tube, 1 LED and 1, if I still have it, bulb. I haven't tested them all out together, though, so don't know which one is best...

 

[Marina Engan]

Thank you! I will try it when I wake up... I'm fast asleep now And so are they... my little angels
Nighty night

 

[Marina Engan]

Well... the lamp didn't make any difference at all.
My bathroom is the only room in the house where it gets pitch dark and I have been reluctant to test the lamp there because my bathroom is out on the terrace so I would have to take her out in the open air... But Anastacia is a fantastic tiel.. I can do whatever I want with her, so I took the chance.
And as I said... no result. But as we were in the bathroom, I thought I would give her a bath, mostly because of the greenish spot. And it disappeared almost completely!
When she was soaking wet I could see that she has dark pigmentation on parts of her body. Her back, part of the wings, on the belly and some small patches in her face. The ones on her face were significant lighter than the ones on her body.
Her flight feathers are kind of yellow-greyish-beige. Her tail feathers though were clearly patterned with diluted brown lines. The color is
consistent with my Cinnamon Pearl hen, though slightly lighter. Even the pattern matches so it leads me to believe that there is Cinnamon Pearl in her. Based on her eye color, which is deep plum, it suggests Clear Cinnamon Pied. Could she be a WF Clear Cinnamon Pied Pearl?
I know that the eye color darkens when they get older, but she's only 4 months old. Her clutch-sister, who is Lutino, has bright red eyes that have not darkened at all. Her parents, Lutino and Lutino Pearl (mother) have bright red eyes. They are 2.5 and 3.5 years old.
I've found that here in Spain all whites are called Albino, and Lutino Pearl is often called "yellow". This also applies to experienced breeders. So I do not trust the information I have received to a 100% when it comes to their background. It can be a little annoying, but also exciting.
Since I am interested in genetics and serious breeding, I want to know what I am doing. I do not breed to become rich (who becomes rich on Tiel-breeding ), but because it interests me. I do not want to mass-produce chicks to sell to families that let them spend their whole life in a cage ... I want to have quality breeding where I can co-work with other reputable breeders.

So now I'll go find my Sherlock Holmes hat, pipe and magnifying glass and go out on the quest to search of my Tiels genes and mutations.

 

[Monica]

She's more likely to be a Whiteface Cinnamon Lutino Pearl than a Whiteface Cinnamon Pearl Pied, IMO...


Albino is the common name for Whiteface Lutino
Just as Whiteface is the common name for Blue - despite the fact that cockatiels aren't blue, it is a blue gene!

 

[Marina Engan]

She's more likely to be a Whiteface Cinnamon Lutino Pearl than a Whiteface Cinnamon Pearl Pied, IMO...


Albino is the common name for Whiteface Lutino
Just as Whiteface is the common name for Blue - despite the fact that cockatiels aren't blue, it is a blue gene!

Thanks Monica!
I found this pic that explained it so well... So you are correct!

When it comes to the terms... As far as I can understand, it doesn't exist any true Albino(yet), and because of it the genetic experts are very clear in what terms they use. If a true Albino should come along, the use of the term Albino now would create a lot of confusion later. I'm sorry if I seem like a besserwisser, that's not what I want... It's just that I can understand the reaction from the specialists and why they want the correct terms to be used. I myself have been very confused about this. When it comes to how the terms are used here(for the most part), it is used very loosely and it concerns me that the breeders doesn't seem to know what they are breeding, and the information they pass on when they are selling is kind of "well, a sort of..." "Think it was..."
I'm glad to say that there's a change going on. Avian vets and geneticist are holding seminars and the interest for this seminars are growing rapidly. And it's important because the way a lot of people see their avians are disturbing. If the bird is sick, they don't go to the vet... they just hopes it goes well. You can't even get an assurance for avians here. Cats and dogs, yes... but not for our little friends. When I came to the vet with Anastacia a couple of months ago, they were surprised that I came in with a chick. And they told me about the problems in the mindset here.
You can (often) see dog owners kicking and whipping their dogs out in public... nobody reacts. It's so sad. And they can leave their dogs barking at their terraces for (the worst I've experienced it) up to 13 hours! Barking constantly. When I asked the owner about it, she just said that "it's natural, dogs bark all the time". And nobody in the neighborhood said anything. I was going crazy with the barking... how did the dog feel??
I'm sorry for the "dog-talk" It's just to show how a lot of people see their pets. And ofcourse... I am used to a strict regulation by the Swedish Animal Protection Laws, and are stunned by the difference.

So I understand what you mean, and in "daily-bird-talk" I can understand the use of terms like Albino, but not when it comes to breeding and genetics. So I feel that I need the correct terms to be able to get a clear overview of my flock, my breeding and to understand genetics.

I'm sorry... this was a lot just to describe my last sentence

I appreciate the conversation with you and you have helped me so much with your knowledge and inputs. Keep it coming please
And once again... I'm sorry if I come off as a besserwisser. I just want to learn :handup:

 

[Monica]

@srtiels (Susanne Russo) has great photos! Another is Casey Meany.


There is another Ino mutation... The Ino mutation you have is "SL Ino", the other is "NSL Ino". SL means Sex-Linked, NSL being Non-Sex-linked. The NSLIno mutation acts just like the Whiteface mutation does. Because of this, it's best to not mix the two Ino mutations together, as that could result in even more confusion!


Sucks about animal care there, but I think it's like many other places, too. There are some exceptionally fantastic people and then there are others that shouldn't even be allowed to take care of another being, regardless if it's human or animal...


"Albino" Male under a black light will be purely white
"Albino" Female under a black light will have striped tail feathers and spotted flights
Clear Pied Whiteface (either sex) will be pure white

Differences between Clear Pied WF and Albino would be in the eye color.

I think this image in particular is good... and the next one for you!

And the beauty of an Ino's eyes!