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Greenwing Advice

Macawnutz

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Your not overfeeding him if he is not eating solids. The amount of formula fed in the "the large macaw book" is reducing because they are eating solids. Don't take away his only food supply if he is not eating. Concentrate on offering other foods before meal times but continue formula as usual.

"Lots of bacteria" gram positive bacteria is normal, gram negative is indicator of infection. I assume since they saw yeast they did and gram stain and wet mount. ( yes, about 10 minutes ) I would hope they would not treat normal healthy bacteria. The fact that they saw yeast but not budding yeast is normal but if you start giving antibiotics that could give the yeast the environment to thrive.

Can you call them? Ask what percentage of gram negative they saw?
 

Joey wade

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Your not overfeeding him if he is not eating solids. The amount of formula fed in the "the large macaw book" is reducing because they are eating solids. Don't take away his only food supply if he is not eating. Concentrate on offering other foods before meal times but continue formula as usual.

"Lots of bacteria" gram positive bacteria is normal, gram negative is indicator of infection. I assume since they saw yeast they did and gram stain and wet mount. ( yes, about 10 minutes ) I would hope they would not treat normal healthy bacteria. The fact that they saw yeast but not budding yeast is normal but if you start giving antibiotics that could give the yeast the environment to thrive.

Can you call them? Ask what percentage of gram negative they saw?
Thank you for explaining that. This board really is amazing and I appreciate everyone's help and patience. I'm confident they would not treat healthy bacteria... I didn't know it was that easy to tell the difference.

Should I mix a bit of ACV in with the formula while he's on antibiotics?

It's very difficult to call the doctor on the phone at this place. They are usually very busy and the receptionist always suggests coming in. ;-(
 

Macawnutz

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If it were me and I knew they would not treat healthy bacteria I would start antibiotics again. I also agree with ML about adding a few drops of ACV to his formula. I would continue the probiotic as well.

The antibiotics will kill any good (gram positive) bacteria and any bad (gram negative ) bacteria. Any yeast can quickly take over when the immune system is lowered and the ACV will make it a difficult enviroment to take hold of. The probiotics are good bacteria so replacing that will also be needed.
 

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camelotshadow

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Thanks for the vid!
I was reading slide prep in my Avian surgery book but there were so many chemicals I don't have.

Wow, its alot of stains & heat & rinses.
I have the violet stain but thats it & no alcohol burner. Also they want you to use the oil immersion lens & I have no oil for it
but thats the 1000X magnify which is the strongest on a reg light microscope.

Been to busy to check Rios poop under the microscope but looks like I won;t be seeing bacteria at only 400X magnification anyway but yeasts & other things are bigger.:wideyed:

:fairy2:
 

Hankmacaw

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Unfortunately, gram stains and all the rest are more complicated than it sounds. They can tell the difference in good/bad bacteria by the stain that is used, heat or no heat and the shape of the bacteria - there are rods and spirals and rounds and clumping ones ones...... I remember faintly (50 years ago) from my microbiology and my stint as a lab tech. My vet is an amazing diagnostician and can almost tell what's wrong with Jasper when I walk in the door with her. He can look at a slide and almost always knows which bacteria or yeast it is. Magic, I say, magic.

 

Fia Baby

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And as for offering him solid foods in the hopes that he'll eat on his own - I noticed that mine was much more inclined to try solid foods AFTER she'd had her handfeeding. Being TOO hungry made her less inclined to experiment. After the handfeeding, try putting him back in his cage with his food placed right next to his most favorite hang-out spot. And don't distract him - they're like little kids at this stage, any distraction and they're up investigating it. Like your class, I'm sure! (My husband and I are also teachers - he teaches high school science, and I'm the speech pathologist for the district (and early childhood).

I would keep adding either yogurt or probiotics, or a bit of both. Yogurt is a nice dietary supplement anyway, as you can get some protein, fat, and calcium into him this way. Will he eat off a spoon for you? Will he try food you're eating? Did you try the yam/egg/nut butter/banana mixture?
 
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Fia Baby

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If you're working at a school, go talk to the science teacher - chemistry and/or biology teachers - they may have the stuff you need to do this yourself, and may be able to walk you through the procedure. Sounds like people here could help you as well. I've used the microscopes and slides at school to do all sorts of interesting, personal things! Between Google and you're own resources, I bet you can figure this out and not have to worry about other people's accuracy.
 

rocky'smom

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Joey wade

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I looked for yams here. Closest thing was a sweet potato. Vader was trying things right after eating too, but stopped a few days ago. He would try them from the plate, but won't put his head inside the food cup where he perches.

Thought we had a breakthrough the other day when he was chewing on some pellets, but he was just playing around.

I would love to be able to look at it myself, but the microscopes in our lab leave a lot to be desired. I love reading detailed explanations like the link that was posted.

@Fia Baby
 

Macawnutz

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They have to play with the food before they start trying it. Short squirts are good especially if he is learning to swallow. Small squirts under the tongue will teach him.
 

Fia Baby

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Use the sweet potatoes then. In the U.S. they're all sweet potatoes, but some are marketed as "yams." I have no idea why. They do have nutritional differences, but they'll still work great as a carrier for other foods, and will still give some calories and vit. a.

I hope the meds. fix whatever is going on. I do remember mine also would only eat off of a plate at first. I had to raise the grate in her cage and put the plate on a box on the raised grate, so she could reach it from her perch without too much difficulty at first. She made the transition eventually. You guys will get through this - as far as the norms go, his weight and volume of food being eaten are within the typical range. Keep weighing him as best you can though - weight loss is such an important first indicator of a problem. Can you wrap him securely in a towel? You could weigh the towel, then wrap him up and lay him on the scale in it. Sounds a bit crazy but hey, it just might work if he held still for a few seconds.
 

rocky'smom

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I buy both yams and sweet potatoes, they are pretty much interchangeable. I cook mine drain them well and then mash them with some coconut water or pineapple juice, no more then teaspoon worth. I add a little cinnamon or ginger powder to the mash. Parrots like the spices in them. I freeze the mash in zip lock snack size baggies. you have bigger birds so maybe sandwich size would work better. warm it in the micro wave just enough to take the chill off of the amount. I also add some thing some oatmeal uncooked to it before I freeze it.
 

Joey wade

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So he's had lot of outdoor time today with the harness and has been doing okay on the meds. After unsuccessfully trying to get him reinterested in food the past few days I just slid an apple slice through the bars and this happened:

image.jpeg

It's so fascinating to me how they develop so differently. Joey was eating solids much earlier but it was nearly half a year before he ever held food with his hands.

Anyway. Happy to see him eating on his own.
 

rocky'smom

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good job Vader ;)keep on trying new foods little buddy, they are good for you.
 

Hankmacaw

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Good for Vader. His belly doesn't look like he's starving.

Such a pretty, pretty boy.
 

zoo mom

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Vader is a handsome chap. I have been following along even though I have no advice to add.
 
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