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Morning squawks and unweaned baby !

Vulpeste

Strolling the yard
Joined
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85
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Caroline
Hi everyone !

I'm coming to you with a pretty common little problem that isn't really one, but more to check out with you guys if I'm acting like I should towards it :joyful:
My baby boy Oliver finally arrived to me last Saturday !
A bit of background :

Oliver hatched on the 01/03 so he's now around 10 weeks.
The person I bought him from, which is only in the bird "industry" as she said, since a year, is a young girl that to me, lack a bit of experience.
I posted a thread a while ago about me visiting Oliver and the fact that he escaped flying by the wide open door and that luckily after more than 3 hours of research we were able to find him.
After that she wanted to clip him because she couldn't control his flying, to which I insisted that I wanted him not clipped, and that I could take him earlier if it was too stressing for her. But she insisted that he should be sold fully weaned and that for now except from grapes and millet spray and pellets (his main diet, not great), he wasn't touching any other fruit/veg.
So I was gonna wait but then 4 days later she sends me a text telling me that her boyfriend (which is also part of the business they have) was getting sick of Oliver's morning squawks and that I could come pick him up now, that he was almost weaned anyway and that she was gonna give me baby formula to sustain for another week or so.
I took him straight away as I rather knowing him in my hands anyway and because I was ready to take him. Since the first day he has eaten every piece of fruit and veg I gave him with great enthusiasm, which makes me think she might not have offered him a big variety. She did a great job to raise him though, he's healthy and so adorable and tame.

Now about the squawks first.
I've read everything I could about it, I just have trouble to find out the difference between the squawks from a baby that just call for food, or the squawks of communication/attention.
To describe it best:

Oliver wakes up and play in his cage until he can see me move or hear me get up, and then he start to squawks veeery loudly, every 2/3 seconde.
From there what I usually do is that I leave the room and ignore him. I respond the first time because generally it's a cute noise but then he starts to squawks and I ignore that. He has food in his cage so he's not starving but I guess he's calling by reflex for his baby food. I only leave the time to get his food ready in the kitchen, and as soon as I do, he stops. He never squawks when I'm not in the room. I've already been to work an entire day and my roommate haven't heard a sound.
That's the part that tickles me, if he was really calling for food, should he not keep calling even after I leave the room?
Anyway, I usually come back in the room, and he start squawking again. I usually sit down and wait for him to calm down a few minutes but generally in the morning he doesn't really, and I live in a sharehouse and don't really want to make my roommates cranky about huge call at 7 am. But I don't want to either encourage a behaviour if it's for attention.
So I'm coming to you to know what is best for the morning?
I end up taking him out after a few minutes when the squawks are less loud and more spare and praise him, but as soon as I do he starts back on squawking like crazy, so I just stop talking and ignore him and sat him on the towel to start feeding. In between each spoon, you guessed it, SQUAWKS!! So I know that this is to ask for more, so what I do is that I make sure to give him the spoon after a few seconds of silence, and if he squawks when I'm on the point to give him I move the spoon back and wait for the next silence. I know I need to keep doing that but so far there's no result.

After that I give him his bowl of fruit/veg/sprouting seeds for him to keep eating, but he generally kinda ignore it at first and keep going on with the squawks, so usually I leave the room and leave him on his play gym with the bowl and I take the time to clean the dish from the morning in the kitchen. Sure enough as soon as I leave he stop squawking and when I come back he has his head right in the bowl! But start squawking again.

From that point on it will follow the same routine all day, as soon as I have him on me, play with him, feed him or else, the squawks are here every 3 second, generally though they are way less loud during the day and I can tell that he just wants to communicate. He will stop it as soon as he's back in his cage or when I leave the room, and when in his cage he will start making adorable noise. Which I always praise a lot and make sure to click the clicker. But as soon as I do he quit the cute noise and SQUAAWKKS !!:laugh:

I do see a change in the last couple of days, he is making more cute noise and less squawks, or less loud. I do training session where he is on his stand and I know all he wants is cuddles, so I come close to pet him but as soon as I do he squawks, so I walk a meter away and turn my back. He will stay silent until I come back and as soon as I pet him he will automatically squawks :shifty:
I do that for 10 minutes each times and he gets it by the end, and when I'm able to pet him more than a few seconde without squawks he has the right ro step up for cuddles.
Same when he falls asleep on my chest, I turn my eyes and my hand away and break eye contact each time. It works as well after a while. If he doesn't stop but already has been fed I just put him in his cage and he calms down.
There's already a lot of progress so far. I had to stop typing because he was falling asleep on his bong perch and was making the most adorable noise, I kept praising him and asking him question to which he responded by nice noise rather than squawks so he had a good pet.
He's back in his cage a bit sleepy and has a ball playing with his toys right now, I just rotate them and for the first time since I have him I see him play! Everything full of cute noise.
The other morning he said "hello" which is crazy as he's barely 11 weeks.
I make sure to always ignore, stay silent and eyes away for the squawking session but sometimes (morning) it gets challenging.

Is there anything else I should do? Should I consider the morning call as a feeding call and respond to it or keep doing what I do? I think her breeder use to rush and feed him each time he was squawking so maybe there's that. I read that in nature the bigger the baby grows, the longer the mom waits to feed him, until one day he quits begging all together.
Any advice?

No for the weaning part. I have raised and hand fed baby ekkies before in a bird sanctuary but under supervision, and I am not sure of what to do with Oliver.
He eats a lot, baby food or not, he empties his bowl of fruits and veg, seeds, millets, every day. He has two feeds a day, generally morning is sprouted seeds/fruit/veg and he has millets during the day as he loves it more as a treat that he has to forage for (start teaching him foraging yesterday and he's having a blast) and in the evening it's normally a warm meal, mash pumpkin, rice, peas corn, spinach, a few nuts, and once a week an egg (he loves it !)
I keep adding pellets to his morning fruit and veg and at night, I just sprinkle them above the rest. He used to eat almost exclusively that so I'm gonna decrease progressively but he already shows less interest for them than the rest.
To that, every morning I also give him a bit of formula. The thing is that I don't know when to stop? What quantity to give him? How long should I keep this morning feed going on?
She didn't know his weigh when I got him and I am going to buy a scale today to keep track, but jesus what a big eater !

I think I mentioned everything, sorry it's a long post but I'm just a new worried mom :rolleyes:
Thanks for those who has read up to now and let me know everything :)
 

Vulpeste

Strolling the yard
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Brisbane
Real Name
Caroline
Anybody ?!

It's getting worse. Now after he had breakfast or dinner I can't stop the squawks anymore. He's full so not hungry, but if I want to pet him, play with him, talk to him, ANYTHING, he squawks terribly loudly. I have the feeling that the training session even reinforce that now. He's only silent or making cute noise when in his cage or when he eats or when I'm out the room. I keep putting him on his perch, clicker in my hand, turning my back at each squawks and coming back when silence, but I swear, he will stay silent until I turn over, come pet him, talk, click the clicker, anything. It's like it's a game for him now, like he thinks that this is what he should do every time I pay attention to him. "Oh here she turns to me again, time to SQUAWKS!"

Yesterday night I really wanted to spend time cuddling him and I tried several time but there was nothing to do, everytime I put him out of his cage it was ear piercing scream, impossible to stop. It was nightfall so I ended up putting a blanket over his cage and he soothed up straight away and went to bed. Before that I had let his cage door open for him to come out by himself so I could ignore his squawks, but he didn't seem interested, so I was wondering, could he squawks because he was tired and annoyed by my presence and just wanted to sleep? He did started to raise one foot in the air. After I put the blanket he made cute noise straight away.

What can I do? It's not food anymore, it doesn't seem like boredom either or attention as the more he squawks the further I stay. The rare time he's cute and silent with me (yesterday around noon) he spends all the time on my shoulder receiving cuddle and being praised. But it seems to be less and less and more and more squawks now.
He has foraging toys and new stuff everyday. Plenty plenty of food.
 

Birdbabe

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Bump! Sorry ,,,no Eclectus experience here!
 

Lady Jane

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Calling all eckie members.
 

macawpower58

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I swear this seems like deja vu to me. Wasn't there a thread just like this?

Anyway, is 10 weeks a weaning age for Ekkies? I'd have thought you'd still be feeding formula steadily, and just be beginning to introduce other food.

I never thought that young an Ekkie would be eating normally with just supplemental feedings. Of course I've not an Ekkie...so maybe they do wean that early. :huh:

If (as I believe) he should still be on regular feedings, then I'd hazard a guess that yes he's crying for a feeding whether hungry or not. Feeding is an emotional thing just as much as it is a life source.

Hopefully others can give you a better timeline for when he should be formula free and made to 'cry it out'. For the record, I really don't think allowing a baby to cry is good for any reason.

10 weeks is still very young.



 

Vulpeste

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@macawpower58 I think you're right. No he's clearly not weaned the girl sold it to me earlier because she couldn't handle the squawks and she told me that he should only need another week as they are weaning between 10 to 12 weeks. I've read that around other places as well. But recently I've finished a book about raising Eclectus and read more about weaning and turns out they often keep going on with baby food until sometimes much later like 4 months old or else. As you mentioned more as a comfort food than a proper feeding.
Yesterday I didn't gave him formula, I swear he has his head in the food bowl all the time and eats everything I give him, finishes his bowl twice a day and such, and I thought that meant he didn't needed formula anymore. But tonight when I got home from work he started to squawk and I didn't wait and got him out his cage and fed him formula straight away, he kept squawking in between each spoon but when we were done he calmed down and 5 minutes later he was silent. I got his food ready in the kitchen (warm night meal) with him on my shoulder being calm, quiet, or making nice little squawks as a response when I was talking to him, just soft ones. He ate a bit of his meal and by 7pm was ready to go to bed and spend a good time grinding his beak and making adorable noise.

I'm just gonna keep feeding him formula twice a day for now, it's never much and really liquified but I think he needs it as a comfort. I just need to buy some more as the girl only gave me supply for a week. Can somebody tell me where to purchase some from? And what step should I follow next? Just keep going on with the feeding until one day he stops asking for it or just slowly decreasing it?
 

macawpower58

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If you're in the US almost any petsmart/petco/petland will have it. It's best though to find what the breeder was using.

As for what you read...take it with a grain of salt. Macaws can be weaned by 4 to 5 months say many sources. Mine took formula for 8 months. Others I know just as long or longer.

Forced weaning is still up and going strong with some breeders. Selling younger means quicker sales.

I'd guess your baby could easily take formula up to 4-6 months. Possibly more.

Abundance weaning is what you want to to. That is to offer handfeeding when baby asks. If baby is sqawking, handfeed, THEN make a dish of yummy solid food for baby to play with and learn to eat.

I'm glad you saw the comfort those feedings gave baby. What you do now will impact him for life. Babies that are fed on demand, and fed until they refuse it, will grow up much happier and stable. Babies that have been forced to wean early have problems down the road.

One other thing I remember when feeding is that the older my babies got, the thicker I made the formula. How thin is yours? Very young babies take it thin...but for nutrition sake it gets thickened as baby grows.

Remember also that baby birds squawk when they see there parents. They are asking for food. Babies are quiet in the wild when parents aren't around, when they see mom/dad coming, that means food and they cry for her. So squawking when you come near is normal and what babies do. Go ahead and feed when baby asks for it. Allow him to eat how ever much he wants. Keep small shallow bowls in his cage that have different items in them for him to learn to eat. He should never be eating real food instead of formula just to combat hunger. Real food at this stage is in addition to his feeding, not instead of it.

He will start to push away the formula faster and faster when he's really ready to wean. Keep offering it, as one day he may not want it, but the next he may.

You still have a few months (IMO) of handfeeding.

 

Vulpeste

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Ok then I will follow that;
The only thing is that is formula is really liquid as he refuses it when it's too sick. He's only interested in the liquid one. I think it's more for comfort than nutritional value as even after his formula he his head in the bowl for his seeds, fruits and veg, he eats quite a lot of everything so I'm not too worried about the fact that the formula is liquid for the nutrition, as he compensate already himself with the solid food.
 

sierraecho89

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Are you weighing him regularly? He might appear to be eating, but if he's not getting enough to cover nutritional deficiencies, he might be losing weight. You should really buy a scale ASAP to help. And a thermometer for the formula.

We weaned Leelu ourselves; she was six months old when she finally started consistently refusing the bottle. The behavior you described is similar to hers; she'd stay happily in her cage, quietly, until she heard my alarm go off or heard me move... she could always tells when I was awake! She'd let out a few calls, then stop as I got up and got ready; I think the reason she didn't keep screaming is because she knew I'd come down and feed her within fifteen minutes. It sounds like your boy isn't close to weaned and is feeling insecure, worrying about if he'll be taken care of properly. There's a distinct difference between the calls for food and calls because he wants you to come into the room.

Abundance weaning is key--I'd make a ton of formula for her every morning, but she would take less and less on her own time because she wanted less, not because I provided less. I also made a cooked mash of vegetables and fruits and would spoon feed her that every morning (it would take about fifteen minutes) and THEN offer her the bottle. This helped her wean, but it also helped her to feel like her momma really cared about her and would take care of her needs. She knew she'd never be hungry, and was more confident to explore food on her own.

After breakfast, then it was off to her cage to explore all the interesting food I put everywhere!

She'd do the same thing at night, and we'd repeat the process. I think the biggest thing is that this baby needs to know he'll be fed promptly; he might be hungrier than you think, or just insecure in general due to the inexperience of his breeder. I'd offer him a bottle twice a day; once he takes it and eats plenty and you put him back, IF he keeps calling after he's clearly full, you know he's doing it for attention. Now, I'm not experienced by any stretch of the imagination, but hey, it worked for us. =) Like I said, it can take awhile, but it's so necessary for their sense of well-being.

Good luck!
 

Vulpeste

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Hey there, thanks for your reply!
Yeah since my post I figured out all that and Oliver is way better now. He still calls in the morning but same as you, calms down when I remove the towel from his cages, only take a few spoons now in the morning before flying around like a fury.
He's just excited to fly and goes on top of my wardrobe ans squawks so loudly ! That's just excitement I reckon and no food call as he lives the feeding to do that. Luckily it never lasts, it's only a few calls and then he quiets down. At that moment I go to the kitchen and get his proper breakfast ready, fruit veg and sprout, and he will happily eat it in silence.
Same process at night except that he will have only a few spoon of formula when I got home from work just for him to calm down, an crazy fly around and scream for the sake of it, and his dinner. Generally mix Nut Medley (rice, raison, carrots, a few nuts cooked together) mixed with mash pumpkin, carrot, banana, or sweet potato, and with a few sprouts. Before bed time I often give him a bit more formula if he asks so he's full before bed.
Since I do that his behaviour is way better and he's only crying for 5 minutes at morning time, dinner time, and sometimes a bit in between if i'm around but a bit of apple generally calm him.
 
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