Bourna virus/PDD could use advice

[emkiwi]

Hello,

I have a 17-year-old cockatiel who was passing seeds in his waste. After many tests, he got a positive bournovirus test, and since he was passing seeds, the doctor said he most likely has PDD. This is obviously devastating. But also overwhelming. He has pretty much been a seed bird. In recent years, I was able to switch him to nutriberries and get him to eat a small bit of Zupreem pellets. Occasionally he'll nibble on a banana or carrot stick, but he has very little interest in vegetables. He has a prescription for Celebrex. He's been on a small dose for several weeks even before we knew for sure what it was. But it hasn't helped much. After the diagnosis, the doctor gave a stronger prescription. It remains to be seen whether that will help.

If anyone has any advice on feeding, I would truly appreciate it. The doctor recommended Roudybush pellets and I have some on order. I switched him from Nutriberries to Pelletberries in the mean time. He will eat them but mostly I think he's picking out the few seeds that are in there. He then paces and screams for food. It is breaking my heart. I give in and give him more rather than force him to eat the crumbles that are left after he picks through them. I fear that he's not going to go for the Roudybush pellets at all. And I don't know that I'll be able to manage a formula situation. It's very difficult for me to even get the medicine in him.

I'm not sure which is worse, giving him seeds that he's not going to digest or trying to force him to eat pellets by not giving him other food. Help?

Also, just so I can prepare myself, at this stage how long does he realistically have left? I know that the doctor said some birds with bourno virus could live months or a year but I'm not sure about if he has PDD.

Thanks

 

[JosienBB]

So sorry. I was thinking "PDD" as soon as you said he was passing seeds in his droppings in your other thread

Hope someone with experience with PDD can chime in.

 

[rocky'smom]

have to tried a warm mash, of sweet potatos, some rice, finely chopped fruit; such as apples, grapes, bananas, pineapple. cooked beans & peas, soaked wheat berries or kamut. use no salt in anything you make. you can also add cinnamon powder to the mash to make it more appealing to the bird.
please remember use only fresh veggies and fruit that has been washed completely with something like Dawn dish soap, and rinsed thourghly. Pineapple you can used canned if and only if it canned 100% pineapple juice (Dole). i make this up monthly and freeze in snack size zip lock baggies laid flat in the freezer, so you can break off portion size pieces, to thaw and heat up about 20 to 30 seconds in the microwave. i use pyrex dish to heat up the food in microwave. place this in the cage as soon as you uncover the cage, b/4 the bird has time to eat anything else. you also can place some nutriberries on the top of the mash.
Pictures - Freezer Ready Bird food | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum

 

[Tanya]

We recently faced a similar situation. Rhubarb was diagnosed with ABV. She doesn't have any symptoms of PDD (yet, hopefully ever, though she does have kidney issues). She actually really liked her birdy bread but was still a hard to get onto pellets. She's now on Roudybush AV for diminished kidney function.

It took almost a month for her to start eating them regularly. At first I gave her whole pellets mixed with seed. She ignored them and they got covered in seed hulls. Then I ran some pellets through the blender (dry) and then mixed the resulting meal half and half with seeds. She was smart enough to just push away the pellet powder... So I added some water. Then the seeds were embedded in a pellet mash. At first she picked the seeds out of the mash very carefully... And throughly earned the nickname "food beard." Eventually she nibbled the mash as well. After a couple weeks I started offering dry pellets in the same dish, but to the side of the mash and seeds. One day she tried them and suddenly seemed to prefer dry pellets to digging through the wet stuff for a bit of millet or canary grass.

Now she gets her pellets right in front of her face, at her favorite perch. She also gets a bit of seed mixed with her fresh food every morning, but she has to climb to reach it. Being a lazy bird, she is pretty good about eating her pellets now.

I hope this helps. ABV is a scary thing and my heart goes out to you as you care for your little one.

 

[gibsongrrrl]

Roudybush makes a PDD prescription diet. If your vet is ordering for you, ask them about it and see if you can get that instead of the regular. They may already know about it, but never hurts to check. So sorry to hear about this.

 

[mythic55]

Hello,
I'm not sure which is worse, giving him seeds that he's not going to digest or trying to force him to eat pellets by not giving him other food. Help?

Gotta get the seeds out of the diet as reasonably as possible. Not digesting, means no nutrition. Watch his weight (wiegh him every morning or so). You have to keep trying things, -try fresh foods.

EDIT: try sprouted seeds. Increases the nutritional value 300% but reduces fat content.

 

[Jeddy]

I would trying making some Harrison's Birdie Bread with Sunshine factor. Bodie loves it and it is very good for them. Harrison's is an organic pellet and their birdie bread mix has it added in it. Nothing like a fresh batch of birdie bread. Try that for your tiel.

 

[Macawnutz]

Avian Enzyme – Now in 2oz Packages | Harrison's Bird Foods

Proventricular Dilatation Disease and Avian Borna Virus | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum

 

[mythic55]

@Jeddy

While birdie bread can be good... it has a thick base whic has unfavorable ingredients. Similar to having a salad- but covering it in ranch dressing.
So while it is apealling to birds (because usually it is 80% corn or wheat) it is not ideal. It can however be used to 'convince' birds to eat healthier... often they become addicted to the corn, and refuse all else (dogs also get addicted to corn).

Those nutriberries are 50/50 and at least that is better than nothing. Then try to integrate foods... you may find that she prefers greens more... or squashes more... etc. My african grey had PBFD, and when integrating veggies- she prefered them in 'french fry' or 'match sticks'... it because fun for her to grab. Your bird may prefer a size or texture.

I would work harder on a pellet based diet, and as much variety of fresh items. Things that often help:
Chop things up very, very small and mix with millet (or ground sunflower- whatever if the favorite item)
Try things chopped fresh in large pieces, grated, cooked.... never know what will entice them.
Try serving fresh BEFORE breakfast... they are hungry when they wake up, and one bite is better than none

The bird's immune system mainly consists of lymphatic vessels and lymphoid tissue. Harrisons sunshine factor is good- it provides essential items, but it is not amazing. I would also recomend a probiotic.

I would also look for things that specifically increase immune system. Some herbs I can think of off hand are: Astragalus, Echinacea, Vitamins E,C and A
Sunflower seeds (moderation here- maybe crushed ones on top of an orange slice)
Carrots
Hot peppers
Fresh greens (this doesnt mean iceberg lettuce- that is mostly water)

 

[emkiwi]

Thanks everyone. He's not fond of anything wet or mushy, so I'm not sure how a mash will go over, but I will try some of the suggestions. He was willing to eat a lot more banana than usual last night, probably because he was hungry from not enough seeds. The pellet berries are 80% pellets, so I've been trying those instead of the nutriberries. But I will occasionally give a partial nutriberry because it tends to simulate his appetite and make him more likely to eat other stuff. It's just heartbreaking to watch him pace and beg for food, but it's equally heartbreaking have him have a good evening and morning with no seeds passed and then to come home from work and find he's pooping what looks like a bunch of seeds barely tied together with a bit of waste.

Question on the probiotics. I bought the powder Benebac because he was on antibiotics, but when he went back for a vet appointment after the antibiotics the vet found he still had a lot of bacteria in his waste. So she didn't think he needed them. Would it be beneficial to give him them anyway or harmful?

 

[mythic55]

What kind of bacteria? As far as my experience. Benebac is NOT OK for birds. Beneback PLUS is. (the later contains sugars)
I use AVIPRO avian probiotics as needed.

Is this an avian vet? I mean a REAL avian vet? (sorry to ask)

 

[lexalayne]

Unraveling the Puzzle of Avian Bornavirus & PDD - Pet Birds by Lafeber Co.

I hope this link works.

 

[Macawnutz]

I use this Avi-culture, The Finest, Live, Avian-Specific Probiotic if there is still bacteria present did your vet continue or switch antiboitics?

A bacteria infection CAN cause undigested material to pass through. I read some statistics that possibly over 40% of captive birds will test positive for ABV and NEVER develop any signs of anything. Treat the problems you can see before seeing the world like the sky is falling.

 

[lexalayne]

WELL SAID!!!!

 

[BeakFace]

I use this Avi-culture, The Finest, Live, Avian-Specific Probiotic if there is still bacteria present did your vet continue or switch antiboitics?

A bacteria infection CAN cause undigested material to pass through. I read some statistics that possibly over 40% of captive birds will test positive for ABV and NEVER develop any signs of anything. Treat the problems you can see before seeing the world like the sky is falling.

Wrote to you about this product. Don't know anything about Probiotic for birds and just asking for some information.

 

[Jeddy]

@mythic55 The birdie bread I was referring to is the mix from Harrison's. It contains their organic pellets. You mix in the sunshine factor. I make it all the time for Bodie. He loves it as a treat. I like the fact that it comes from a terrific company that uses organic products. It does help birds convert to a better diet from seed.

 

[mythic55]

Jeddy- please read your labels: ingredients are millet and corn. Not ideal, especially for ill birds. While it gets them to 'eat' it does not contain proper nutrition.

 

[sunnysmom]

Sorry to hear about your tiel. The first vegetable I ever got my tiel to eat was broccoli - just the tops cut in tiny pieces to look like seeds. He's also a big fan of the Higgins Worldly Cuisine mixes- which you can also mix vegetables in.

 

[emkiwi]

He was on antibiotics and I asked about probiotics and was told that they probably weren't necessary because he was also on an anti yeast medicine as a precaution because she thought she might have seen some yeast. I ordered the Benebac on my own because that was what another vet had given me in the past. But I haven't used it. I had to go back a week later and she took a second gram stain and said that he had no yeast and still a lot of bacteria, but it wasn't the bad kind so I didn't need probiotics. She did a blood panel to check for infections and found none, so I didn't get any more antibiotics. When the bourno virus came back positive, she said that with his symptoms, that was probably the cause.

 

[lexalayne]

I use this Avi-culture, The Finest, Live, Avian-Specific Probiotic if there is still bacteria present did your vet continue or switch antiboitics?

A bacteria infection CAN cause undigested material to pass through. I read some statistics that possibly over 40% of captive birds will test positive for ABV and NEVER develop any signs of anything. Treat the problems you can see before seeing the world like the sky is falling.

Negative doesn't always mean they don't have it. Positive is the only time you know they do have what they're being tested for. I've read about intermittent shedding and it's possible there is no shedding when testing is done. I really hope your bird isn't in the PDD stages. There are approx 10 strains of ABV and no one knows which strain is associated with PDD. The only known fact is a bird with PDD will test positive for ABV. However, it is estimated that 40-60% of all birds will test positive for ABV, however not all of these birds will ever develop PDD. And mammals have a similar virus in their system estimated up to 75% in the population. There is so much more we need to know about ABV and it's relationship to PDD. Maybe take it one day at a time. My parakeet in college suddenly couldn't perch and his legs splayed out from his body. I rushed him to the vet whose only advice was to put him down. I refused and made him flat perches, within a few months he could perch again and was back to normal. I wish you the best.