% of parrots clipped?

[Monica]

Eloy, that is one thing I am jealous of about your country! (bird keeping laws) And a law(s) like that *WOULD NOT* go over well here!

 

[gibsongrrrl]

My intention is not to spark a debate on the benefits of full flight or clipped parrots. I'm just curious how common bird owners clip their parrots. Would you say maybe 2/3 of all parrot owners keep their parrots clipped? I know AA is very much pro-fully flighted so the majority here doesn't necessarily represent the majority of parrot owners.

I'd agree with 2/3, if not more.

 

[WeasleyLover]

Very sad! In Sweden all birds are allowed to fly (yes I'm proud of my Country) because it's not allowed to clip them here. We have a own "bird law", that tell what we can do to the bird and how big cage the bird must have.
And we don't have a lot of problem with birds getting lost or injured because they can fly.
To keep our birds safe, we secure our home, because to clip their wings is not an option.

Wish we had laws like that over here.....that is awesome!

 

[gibsongrrrl]

Very sad! In Sweden all birds are allowed to fly (yes I'm proud of my Country) because it's not allowed to clip them here. We have a own "bird law", that tell what we can do to the bird and how big cage the bird must have.
And we don't have a lot of problem with birds getting lost or injured because they can fly.
To keep our birds safe, we secure our home, because to clip their wings is not an option.

that is AWESOME!

 

[Gypsy]

How is your home secured. How is the law enforced.

 

[~Drini~]

I don't clip the wings of my birds only because I do not need to. They're tame, friendly, unafraid of humans, and pose no danger to one another. Granted, they are never in dangerous areas and ALWAYS wear a harness outside. If the circumstances were different, I would clip again. For now, I enjoy watching my birds use their feathers to zoom around.

 

[Heather F]

Birds are often compared to toddlers. Toddlers are into everything and are put into play pens to keep them out of trouble. I see no difference.

The comparison may be apt, but it's not very flattering. A parent who keeps their toddler in a playpen all or most of the time... well they're not winning any parent of the year awards, that's for sure.

Clipping doesn't do away with the need to bird proof and supervise. It may reduce some risks, but it increases others. I would be very wary of keeping a clipped bird in the same house with a dog or cat. They end up in the same room, dog/cat startles bird off its perch, now bird can't get away. Might get lucky and nothing happens, but a predator/prey accident can happen faster than a human can intervene.

Maybe it's just that I have a small and very active bird and I can't imagine how clipping him would actually keep him from getting into things. He'd just flutter/climb down and start merrily exploring anyway. I would still need to keep the toilet lid down, I would still need to keep him caged or in another room with door closed when one of us is cooking on the stove or opening the oven, I would still need to keep the windows and balcony door closed when he is out, I would still need to clean up after him, I would still need to shoo him away from things he shouldn't be getting into, I would still not have him out unsupervised.

 

[Sam-wow]

is it true that a bird breathes the best/fully when in flight ?

 

[jmfleish]

I don't suppose you know where that study is?

Ok, I've dug a little bit and can't find the study per se, but I did find an online forum that talks about the man who runs the lost and found registry in England and it seems that his thought is that it's probably about 50% of the birds lost are clipped versus flighted which I think says a lot. Here is a link to one of the discussions they had about it. I'll let you know if I can find anything else.

Attitudes to clipping in North America - Contact/Info/Help Wanted - Parrot-Link Forum

 

[Monica]

Thanks Jen for that link! I recognize the OP from that thread, and she does have a great setup in her home for her birds! I'll have to read the full thread later, though!



@Sam-wow I would say the answer is yes. A person who doesn't go anywhere all day long and sits on the couch is going to get a lot more winded than a person who is active nearly every day. On the same saying, an athlete will be able to breath better than a normally active person.

If you have birds that don't exercise much and birds that fly a lot, you'll notice that the flighted birds that exercise frequently will be in better overall physical health than those that don't exercise. Everything from muscles, overall fitness, and how long they can exercise for before they get tired.

 

[ratgirl]

I keep mine fully flighted for the most part. I usually clip before selling a baby or if a certain bird just insists on harrassing another to the point of being a danger. I usually encourage buyers to keep the bird clipped for at least the first year and then re-evaluate if they want to.

I have to say, I would now never buy a baby from a breeder who would insist on clipping it. Never. I clipped birds initially back in the 90's when that was the current wisdom. Now that I know better, I can't think of a reason I'd clip other than an injury.

 

[ratgirl]

I know you didn't mean to spark a debate. Forums like this tend to attract forward thinkers/knowledge hungry people who might be more open to the idea of leaving their birds flighted. I would say the majority of bird owners do clip. Sometimes it is necessary for the bird's well being/safety, especially with large species, or birds that aren't tame. But there are a lot of benefits to leaving birds fully flighted - I think there's a large group of people who clip because they aren't aware there's any alternative. There's definitely more flighted birds now than in the past, as it's much easier to access literature & info about bird behavior/training/etc. than, say, 20 years ago.

ETA: most forums get a lot more guest reads than member reads.... even if you weren't looking to discuss the benefits of flight/clipping, it's never a bad idea to put info out there just in case this thread happens to be someone's deciding factor on whether to clip or not.

I think you are right. I am happy to see that more people are keeping their birds flighted now then when I started, but it's still a minority. When I first got birds, you were an irresponsible bird killer if you didn't clip. You couldn't even find info on information about keeping flighted birds. Slowly, I think that is changing. I don't know if it will ever become the norm, but a girl can dream.

 

[melissasparrots]

I have to say, I would now never buy a baby from a breeder who would insist on clipping it. Never. I clipped birds initially back in the 90's when that was the current wisdom. Now that I know better, I can't think of a reason I'd clip other than an injury.

Well to each their own. I've had people try to walk out of my house with a newly purchased young bird on their shoulder. Only to be stopped by me with a look of horror and be truly shocked that a tame baby would possibly fly away from them. I've heard of plenty of situations where people who should know better have to stop for gas on their way home from a road trip to pick up a bird and end up accidentally releasing it out an open window. I respect the opinion that birds should be allowed to fly. In reality, I question the wisdom in all situations. Plus, with certain large parrot species, I also question how much exercise they are really getting around the house being fully flighted. I'm still thinking next summer I might try to do some creance flying with my hyacinth the same way I start out training a new hawk for free flight. I'm not willing to take my blue girl off the creance line, but it could still get her 150-200 feet of sustained flight with several repeats. Probably more than most flighted macaws would get in the average home or aviary.

 

[Monica]

Browsing the Parrot Link forum..... additional links

IMPORTANT - NEVER TRUST A CLIPPED BIRD OUTSIDE - PARROT-LINK INFORMATION TOPICS - Parrot-Link Forum
Bird / Parrot Wing Clipping - The pro's and con's - fact finding? - Living with Parrots - Parrot-Link Forum
wing clipping-yes or no?? - Contact/Info/Help Wanted - Parrot-Link Forum


It is interesting reading a pro-flight forum, to the point that people can feel guilty for clipping.... which can be quite the opposite situation for birds here in America!
Wing Clipping - Contact/Info/Help Wanted - Parrot-Link Forum

 

[pajarita]

If you own a dog and a cat and they have freedom of the house, it does.

I have seen many people post pictures of damage to their walls, door frames, wires, remotes and other household items. Just recently I read a post about a bird possibly ingesting an anti-depressant pill. If owners of flighted birds are willing to take chances of that happening, then so be it.

Birds are often compared to toddlers. Toddlers are into everything and are put into play pens to keep them out of trouble. I see no difference.

I offer multiple play stands in different rooms so please do not paint me as a bad person. All that matters is that my bird is happy and healthy which he is. If you are against clipping, that is fine. Please do not criticize those who choose to not agree with you. We all have to live with the consequences of our decisions.

Please understand that this is not a criticism of what you do but a clarification on an apparent misconception you are operating under: a clipped bird is not a healthy one. I can't possibly be. You can get perfect blood values from a clipped bird but that doesn't make it healthy. A body needs to move in the manner that nature evolved it to move in order to function properly. I don't know if you have any relatives or close friends that are paraplegic but, if you do, you must know that they have lots of medical issues all directly related to their inability to walk (and this goes from respiration to digestion to endocrine system -they don't even sleep well). And we, humans, are not only the ultimate domesticated animal, we were never as 'specialized' in terms of exercise as birds are because we use more 'parts' of our body so we can lift weights and even do a certain amount of aerobic exercise just by moving our upper torso and extremities but birds evolved in such a way that the one and only effective exercise is flight.

 

[Mrcrowley]

I have my birds flighted my wife has her two Conures clipped for dafty I have a bird room and her birds do not get along with mine so to keep them safe we keep her's clipped. But they do not care they love there mobile perch Mommy .

 

[Mrcrowley]

AND there is no wrong or right to clipping you do what ever you feel will keep your bird(s) safe. even though we have our opinion's WE are the one's ehat are in care of OUR own bird's and I know the people here love there bird's to death.

 

[Gypsy]

Please understand that this is not a criticism of what you do but a clarification on an apparent misconception you are operating under: a clipped bird is not a healthy one. I can't possibly be. You can get perfect blood values from a clipped bird but that doesn't make it healthy. A body needs to move in the manner that nature evolved it to move in order to function properly. I don't know if you have any relatives or close friends that are paraplegic but, if you do, you must know that they have lots of medical issues all directly related to their inability to walk (and this goes from respiration to digestion to endocrine system -they don't even sleep well). And we, humans, are not only the ultimate domesticated animal, we were never as 'specialized' in terms of exercise as birds are because we use more 'parts' of our body so we can lift weights and even do a certain amount of aerobic exercise just by moving our upper torso and extremities but birds evolved in such a way that the one and only effective exercise is flight.

I am getting tired of people trying to convince me that I should not clip. As I stated earlier, my house is designed for people not my pets. If you are willing to repair and reimburse me for the damage done by busy beaks or pay my vet bills from some accident, then sure I will not clip them. There is no perfect solution. Birds will do what they want when they want. Clipped or not. I don't like taking risks and would rather take precautions to avoid my pets being a danger to themselves.

 

[melissasparrots]

@Gypsy Just do what you feel is right for your birds. Its different for everyone and every bird. The clip vs. not to clip debate has a tendency to get personal. I'm not entirely convinced the most passionate people on either side of the debate are entirely rational. If it works for you, go with it and be happy. Many a clipped bird has lived well into old age.

 

[ratgirl]

Well to each their own. Plus, with certain large parrot species, I also question how much exercise they are really getting around the house being fully flighted. I'm still thinking next summer I might try to do some creance flying with my hyacinth the same way I start out training a new hawk for free flight. I'm not willing to take my blue girl off the creance line, but it could still get her 150-200 feet of sustained flight with several repeats. Probably more than most flighted macaws would get in the average home or aviary.

First, PLEASE don't think about flying a parrot of any size on a creance. Parrot's legs are not anything like a raptors, and they can not take that kind of force.

And second, I do not free fly all of my birds, but I do fly my Red Fronted macaw. He does not get anywhere near the exercise that a wild macaw would get, and he does fly perfectly well in the aviary and in the house too. Which is still 1000% better than being clipped.

Anyone with a toddler knows you can't leave medications or any dangerous items laying around where they can get them. AND they still need supervision. The same is true for parrots, even if clipped. Most of us are not that silly. I hear the horror stories, so yes, some are. But please don't make assumptions about all of us. I live with birds. I know they are birds. I don't have a false sense of security about leaving doors and windows open. I would rather try to recover a well flighted bird any day than an escaped clipped one. I've done both.