Different species pairs

[Akhanta]

Hi guys! I'm proud keeper of 2 years old Hahn's Macaw boy. I'm going to get him a girlfriend as soon as I'm able to. However, I'd love to find him a different species female - and I could really use your help in this matter What's important to me is if the two species can also crossbreed.

The first one I'm keeping my eye on is Goffin's cockatoo. They seem to be similiarly sized and, from what I've been hearing and reading, absolutely lovely and friendly. The problem is, I have no idea - or even doubt - if those two species can produce babies.

The second one is Sun Conure. I know the species tend to get along and many people keep them paired. Although I don't have a firm proof, I read they can crossbreed.

Both cockatoos and conures tend to be loud - I'm not sure which one is worse, though, do you have some experience with their voices? And are sun conures at least -almost- as cute and cockatoos? Would they get along with very social Hahn's? Which is harder to raise properly, or more problematic? My boy isn't aggressive, but he loves to bite fingers and doesn't like being touched, the issues I have been trying to deal with and without much success. Cuddly bird would not only be cute, but could also show him that it's okay to be more affectionate - Stark loves spending time with me, but usually as long as it's him who is stroking me

Any ideas? I'd love opinions. Or maybe do you have on mind any other species possible to live and crossbreed with the Hahn's?

 

[CheekyBeaks]

Firstly I will start by saying that Hybridising parrots is very unethical and in some areas of the world illegal. It is important that we keep our parrot species as pure as possible as they are our insurance policy if wild populations do not survive.

Now to your question, I would suggest you stick to getting your hahns another hahns for a companion/mate, you are likely to have more success getting them to bond and be compatible.

 

[Akhanta]

I'm not sure if I even want and am able to properly raise baby birds, no matter of them being pure or crossbreeds. Asides from hybrydising - what would you say about mentioned or other species and their capability of living with Hahn's?

 

[Beanurita]

Well said @CheekyBeaks !!

 

[Milo]

Given the respiratory issues that macs can have (I'm not sure if this only applies to the big macs or extends to the minis as well) there's no way I'd intentionally house a dusty bird like a too with a mac. Of course that's forgetting the potential genetic mess of hybridizing species.

 

[JLcribber]

There is no way to "pair" your bird with any other bird. Same species or different species. What you're trying to do is make an "arranged marriage". Only you can choose who you like and don't like. It's the same for them. All individuals with unique personalities.

Aside from that I agree with all the others. You have no idea what your doing when it concerns breeding and even less when it comes to genetics. All you have is this (rather selfish) want/vision. Reality is way different than your "vision". Breeding is not a game and something to be toyed with. Please reconsider your position.

 

[Hankmacaw]

Other than my adverse opinion of hybridyizng birds the thought of housing a dusty bird with any of the new world parrots (Amazon, conure, or any of the macaws) gives me the shivers. Here is an article about Pulmonary Hypersensitivity in parrots.

http://www.thebirdclinic.com/uploadedfiles/pulhyper2009.pdf

If you weren't aware of this danger to New World birds, then John is right - you don't know enough about birds to be a breeder.

 

[jmfleish]

Well, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference with the G2 as you will never get babies from a Hahnsie and a G2. But I agree with what others have said in the idea of just keeping them together or deliberately hybridizing any parrot. Sorry...I know that's probably not what you wanted to hear.

Finding a friend for another bird in general, just so they get along can be very hard to do. There is absolutely no guarantee that any two birds will get along. I have 15 and most of them absolutely hate each other!

 

[Akhanta]

Yes, currently I am indeed not prepared to breed at all. And that's why I would like to hear your opinions and ask questions before I make any decisions, especially that there's not much info about crossbreeding and voices are divided - I didn't find any trustworthy source. So I believe in this case there's no reason to attack me (since I feel kind of offended by some of the voices).
Also, despite me being obssessed with parrots, it's actually first time I hear about the pulmonary problems - I guess it isn't a popular topic in my country...? So thank you for the point, I definitely will look into it.
On the other hand there seems to be some pros of hybrydization too, like "hybrid's vigor" for instance. Also, hybrids happen in the wild too. And since my baby was handraised (gods know I tried to find one not handrised, but in Poland it's almost impossible...), and he doesn't have much idea about other birds, he would not know the difference between Hahn's and other species... Now, would he?
Which kind of makes finding him a girlfriend even harder, but still. And no matter of fem's species, I'm afraid.
Many people, especially in US I guess, keep many different species together and it seems to work well.

 

[JosienBB]

I'm confused as to what you're asking. Are you inquiring about the ability for two different species to get along (friend-wise) or are you deliberately trying to crossbreed (produce a hybrid baby)? If it's just simply keeping two different species together, then yes, it's possible, but depends on the individual birds (just like there's no guarantee two humans would get along with one another). Be aware of the size difference, however - a larger bird can seriously injure a smaller one. It's impossible for cockatoos and macaws to crossbreed. And as already stated, it isn't a good idea to house a macaw with a dusty bird (cockatoo). Also, for future reference, Goffins are much larger than Hahn's macaws (would be dangerous to try and put them together). I've heard of sun conures and Hahns hybridizing, but the hybrids usually have genetic disorders and have a low rate of survival. It is just a bad idea to hybridize. It's not like with a dog -- dogs are all the same species. Birds, on the other hand, are different species. It would be like taking a human and a gorilla and expecting them to breed.

 

[Akhanta]

Thank you very much for awesome reply

I'm mostly asking about ability of different species to get along (friend-wise) and additionally, but just additionally, about their ability to crossbreed. The latter, as I stated, isn't a priority as I am mostly looking for a friend for my boy and myself. Possibility of them having eggs one day would be nice, but currently I am not ready, not at all, to become a breeder and it's not my primary goal and will probably never be.
So to sum up, ability to breed is a additional pro, but not that important. I'd love us to have lovely companion, most of all.

About G2s - I've never seen one with my own eyes and it's hard to compare them by body lenghts since macs have very long tails. However I managed to find a weight chart and now I see they differ too much to risk a meeting. Thank you for confirmation.

And by the way - I've sure known about birds' pulmonary issues, I never let mine breath any perfumes, smoke etc in, but I had no idea that the powder counts in that list... Hell of a thanks for the point.

Now about the conures... They seem to get along well with Hahn's macs. Any accidental eggs can be replaced if they happen (and they would better not, no matter the species, if one is not prepared). I'll have to read more about conures.

Are there any other species capable of safely living with Hahns?

 

[karen256]

I don't think the OP had any interest in breeding - they wanted to know if the species they were considering were capable of cross breeding just so they could be aware of the issue. It seems the responsible thing to do as you often heard of people keeping two birds of different species together and then being surprised with eggs.

Anyway, cockatoos and macaws are genetically very different and would be unable to hybridize. Sun conures, on the other hand, can easily hybridize with a Hahn's macaw. If you get a sun or any other conure or mini macaw other than a Hahn's, I would suggest just getting another male so you don't need to worry about them possibly breeding and producing hybrids.

Like others have said, cockatoos can be dusty and sometimes cause respiratory issues in non-dusty birds like macaws, at least if housed nearby. Frequent baths and a good air filter do help, but cockatoos are just dusty. Conures and mini macaws are probably the closest match, personality wise. Cuddliness depends on individual personality and how a bird was raised as a baby. Some Hahn's macaws can be very cuddly and hands on, you just happened to get one who isn't so cuddly. Remember any new bird you get is not necessarily going to be friends or even like the bird you have (although they will at least keep each other company). You do need separate cages, and have time to give each bird individual attention. A new bird should be quarantined away from your existing bird for a few weeks as well - which also gives you time to develop a nice bond with the new bird without the distraction of another bird friend. Then you can try having them interact with each other in a neutral area to see how they get along. They may eventually choose to move into one cage, or they might hate each other. Ideally you want them to just 'be friends' and not bond to each other to the point of losing interest in people - which actually does happen a lot but isn't guaranteed. You need to be sure to give them some one on one attention daily if they are housed together to maintain that nice bond with people.
Oh, and sun conures can be loud - likely louder than your hahn's. But they are pretty close in size and otherwise reasonably likely to get along.

 

[karen256]

Also I would say there are a variety of species that could happily live in the same household as a Hahn's and maybe even interact a bit if they are similar in size, but there would be more of a personality/activity level difference that might make them less likely to enjoy each other's company. For example, caiques are about the same size but they are higher energy and a little more high strung and might bother your Hahn's. But it depends on how much interaction you expect between the birds. If you just want them able to live in the same house and maybe share a playgym on occasion, then they would probably be ok.

 

[JosienBB]

And by the way - I've sure known about birds' pulmonary issues, I never let mine breath any perfumes, smoke etc in, but I had no idea that the powder counts in that list... Hell of a thanks for the point.

http://forums.avianavenue.com/index...ers-needed-for-zoe.145993/page-8#post-2079810

 

[Akhanta]

I don't think the OP had any interest in breeding - they wanted to know if the species they were considering were capable of cross breeding just so they could be aware of the issue. It seems the responsible thing to do as you often heard of people keeping two birds of different species together and then being surprised with eggs.

Well, that's the case I'm not deciding to breed ANY birds, same species or not, anytime soon (if ever, at all). I'm just not even close to being prepared for babies, especially hybrid ones. But it's always just good to know.
Thank you very much for an awesome reply.
In fact I never met a conure 'in person' - if I decide on getting one, I'll sure check different breeders and spend as much time as possible with the birds, to know them and their habits better. I don't think it's possible, but maybe there are some breeders out there, who give some guarantee and possibility to resign in case the 'old' birdie and the new one hate each other. I doubt that, but it may be worth checking.
I already have two cages - one huge enough to house even 4 Hahns and the travelling one, big enough to live in it quite comfortably (and two carriers, just in case). The travelling one could house the second bird for some time, at least.

If that changes anything, Stark may not be cuddly, but he's probably one of most easygoing parrots I've ever heard of. He likes me and he likes my boyfriend; he likes all the guests, vets and literally everyone he meets. He loves travelling and any new places; in hotels he always chats with the service and I once had to leave him for almost week with my friend's daughter - he loved her also He once met my boyfriend's cat also (through a carrier's bars, ofc) and it was the cat that was scared So I can't imagine him hating another bird, if only they were introduced properly. But things happen, and well, I can't be that sure about the new bird. Is it very common for birds to hate their new avian neighbours, or rather a rare case?

And the conures' voice - I guess records don't show the horror accurately. I'd have to visit some breeder and check that myself. If they're THAT horrible, I'll probably end up with a second Hahn's. Because I'm guessing that yellow-collared macs (or any other macs) are way bigger?

http://forums.avianavenue.com/index...ers-needed-for-zoe.145993/page-8#post-2079810

Damn... That's terrible. I'm relieved that you warned me, guys; I can't even tell how grateful I am. I have always been aware of birds' fragile respiratory system, but somehow I had no idea that the dust feather counts in alongside any deodorants, smoke etc. Thank you again

 

[karen256]

And the conures' voice - I guess records don't show the horror accurately.

Not all conures are loud, and not all people are even bothered by the loud ones. It's an individual thing. Suns and jendays seem to be the most rehomed for noise, because they are very loud, but also very common and colorful which makes them more prone to impulse purchases. But even people who get them fully aware of the noise they make sometimes find the noise is too much. Some other conures are not nearly as loud. Pyrhurras are quiet, but also smaller than your Hahn's. You might consider a blue crown conure - they usually have very nice personalities and are usually not as loud as the suns. Or if you want to stick to a mini macaw but want something a little different than a Hahn's, you might consider a Noble macaw. They are the same species as a Hahn's, just a different subspecies, and just a little bit bigger and usually calmer. They look pretty similar except for beak color.

 

[Akhanta]

I've been thinking about Noble Mac also. I don't know, I'll proably try to meet many individuals of both conure and macaw species and try to choose the best one.

By the way - my baby is 2 years old already, but as I mentioned, very friendly towards everyone (not cuddly, though). Will it be better and easier for both of us to get a baby bird, or older one? Babies are ofc less problematic, but wouldn't the age difference be bothering?

 

[Monica]

If you are not interested in breeding, and you know for a fact that your hahns is a male, why not get a male of another species?

Conures and macaws can hybridize. There are reports and photos of noble x mitred, sun x hahns, jenday x hahns, blue crown x hahns, and multi-generational sun x hahns (possibly even jenday). I think, but I am not sure, that there might also be a golden conure x mini macaw hybrid?

Anyone else out there have a Hahns/Jenday hybrid? | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum
Hahns Macaw x Sun Conure Hybrid? | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum


Conures have also hybridized with amazons... (only proof - but there are other mixed hybrids out there)
2012 | Papegaaien rijden scheve schaats

So it might be safe to assume that macaws and amazons can hybridize? I don't know!


A caique and an illigers macaw have supposedly hybridized, and there is supposedly a photo of it, but I have yet to see said photo....
Illiger's Macaw and Black Headed Caique Successfully Breeding? | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum

So there is a possibility that a hahns could hybridize with a caique, a caique with a conure, maybe even a caique with an amazon? Who knows!



If you are not interested in breeding, either plan on keeping the two birds separate (if of opposite sex), or choose a species that your hahns can't hybridize with! (there's also eclectus, african greys [also dusty], pionus, poicephalus, ringnecks..... all of which have a lower chance of getting along with a hahns than another mini macaw or a conure might!)..... or choose a bird of the same sex! And house them separately!





I do have a mixed flock (as you can tell by my signature), and my two conures are (as far as I am aware) of opposite sex. They do not get along, so they are not housed together! If they did get along, and I was able to house them together in an aviary, then I would never encourage breeding! In fact, I would discourage it! I already know the two species can hybridize, and I have seen pictures of *young* offspring (but not adult pictures) of said pairing. Just because it's possible doesn't mean I'd want to do it.




And yes, there is such a thing as "hybrid vigor", however it occurs *best* in species that are closely related - i.e. a hahns x noble hybrid. When hybrids occur between species that are not so closely related, "outbreeding depression" can occur. Outbreeding depression may not occur with all offspring, but you may not always know which birds it effects. This can result in something as simple as infertility/sterile offspring (aka mules), to deformed feet, maybe even deformed wings, twisted intestines, heart problems, cancer or who knows what else! Behavioral issues is one potential problem seen. In peachfaced lovebird hybrids, the chicks (although sterile) don't know whether to tuck nesting material in their rump feathers like the peachface parent, or carry it in their beak like their eyering parent (fischers or black masked lovebird). This can often result in frustration. These hybrid lovebirds have a desire to breed and reproduce, but they can't figure out how to best build a nest! And they are also sterile, so even if they can build a nest, nothing will ever come of any eggs laid! Since these hybrids can never reproduce, they are worthless to the breeding community.




Here's another scenario to consider... if you *are* interested in breeding in the future, you purchase a female bird that your hahns can breed with, and they produce offspring, what will you do when your two previously tame and friendly birds become aggressive towards you and attack you any time you get close to them or their cage? What will you do when your previously beloved companions no longer desire your affections because they have each other, they are protecting their partner from you, protecting their cage/nest from you and you end up with a breeding pair? Is that something you are willing to risk? Their companionship to allow them to breed and reproduce?

You can breed cats and dogs all year long, and many will remain friendly with humans as they raise young. Some may be protecting when their young are very small, but 'grow out' of that once their offspring get older. Birds on the other hand generally can't be both pets and breeders. Generally speaking, pets don't make good breeders, and breeders don't make good pets. It's one or the other! There are exceptions, but what if your two birds are not the exception? Breeding birds can be very aggressive!


Here's a greenwing macaw pair and they are not so happy about the person being so close to them....

And a video of two B&G's guarding a nest....

Or a macaw pair (greenwing and hybrid) being defensive - they would happily bite the camera person if the person got within biting range!

Out in the wild, parrots not only have to defend their nest from predators, but also from other parrots who want the same nesting cavity! So it's no surprise why many parrots become aggressive when they are ready to reproduce and have a nest.



For size comparison, here's a hahns and a goffin....

 

[Milo]

If you are not interested in breeding, and you know for a fact that your hahns is a male, why not get a male of another species?

If you are not interested in breeding, either plan on keeping the two birds separate (if of opposite sex), or choose a species that your hahns can't hybridize with! (there's also eclectus, african greys [also dusty], pionus, poicephalus, ringnecks..... all of which have a lower chance of getting along with a hahns than another mini macaw or a conure might!)..... or choose a bird of the same sex! And house them separately!

PLEASE don't even consider putting a hahn's in a cage together with a grey or an eclectus... or anything that much larger for that matter. The danger between those beak sizes is too great to even think about... A member here had her green cheek conure's beak bitten off by her eclectus. It's not something to mess around with.

I think housing them separately is the best idea on this thread.

 

[alcmene]

This thread makes me sad.