Told Off at Work

[Kystyv]

To start, I work in a pet store (I know, I know - no one likes generalized pet stores) but I love the opportunity to work with different animals and I do my best to try to research what we have so I can be at least a little informative. To that end, I came here. We currently have a young yellow-sided conure (sweet little thing, though he has got a little bitey recently which I'm sure is due to molting).

The other day I went to give him a little head scratch, which he usually seems to really appreciate right now, and he nipped me (never has bit hard) so I took a step back, kinda wagged a finger at him and said "no". He responded by quieting and tilting his head at me like he does when he wants to be scritched. Since he chose to behave, I complied and I guess I must have bumped a sensitive feather because he made a rather indignant noise and bit me again after a moment of being perfectly content with the contact. I repeated previous actions since they seemed to work before but he kept acting up so I turned to leave and there was a woman standing behind me, arms crossed, with a nasty look on her face and she says "You should never point at a bird. They think you're threatening them. You were asking for that!" and she storms off.

So my question is, did this lady just find the snarkiest possible way of informing me of something I was actually doing wrong, or should I just file her away with all the other opinionated crazies? I have heard some very strange and very wrong advice/comments from customers so I tend not to put any stock in things people say until I am certain they actually know what they're talking about. Though I tried to look this up I couldn't find a single thing on it, so I figured this was a good place to turn to for an honest (and factual!) answer

I just want to try to do right by the poor animals stuck there and give them a good start before they find their homes (and to be entirely honest I am horribly tempted to bring this guy home myself, I have absolutely fallen in love with him). In either case, I'd like to know the best way to handle him while he's being difficult. There's so much conflicting information out there that it's hard to know what's right and what's wrong, but if I have chosen the wrong advice to follow I'd like to know so I can correct it!

 

[Latency]

I tend to put a finger/hand up at my birds who have misbehaved.. so I understand where you're coming from. Unless you attempted to strike/harm the bird with your hand, I don't think it's a threat. There's a difference between putting up a finger and saying "no" than flicking/aggressively displaying your hand to the bird. It's possible he just has sensitive pin feathers that are growing in. Plus, conures are pretty nippy anyways, so I would take the biting too personally.

I'm sure you're doing fine.. seems like he enjoys your company Just be patient. With all the advice there is out there, it's hard to find the *right* advice. Every bird is different, and different methods work for different birds.

It'll be okay. Try not to be too offended..

 

[JAM]

I usually hold my finger up and say "ah,ah no" and our flock tends to realise that it's a no go whatever they are doing.

I find it even cuter that when Red is annoying Pika, Pika will raise one foot and mutter "ah,ah,ah" and Red will generally halt in whatever he was doing!

 

[InTheAir]

It sounds a bit like the bird didn't seem that keen on scratches in the first place. I don't think it is fair to tell a bird off for communicating it's opinion, no matter how mildly you do it.
I would have listened to the first nip and stopped trying to scratch him.

 

[Shyra]

I'm looking forward to hearing what others have to say on this especially those with a lot of bird experience. I don't think it would ever occur to me to point my finger while telling my birds or any of my animals no. Mostly because I know when someone points their finger at me while using a negative tone it automatically puts me on the defensive and I stop listening. I also have to say every time I pointed my finger at my birds if it was close enough they would try to bite it especially if they felt any negativity coming from me whether it was directed at them or not. I use only my voice to let them know I'm not happy with an action not my hands because I do think they perceive using both as being threatening. I have found that offering my whole hand whether it's to have them step up or to pet them tends to put my birds more at ease.

 

[Sadieladie1994]

Petting is no a normal behavior for a bird so be careful and allow them to invite you. There is a knack to grooming feathers and you may need more practice. Get down to their level and have someone point a finger at you. Feel the different emotions. This is a bird learning so needs to be taught. They do better with positive reinforcement, rewarding good behavior and giving them choices.

 

[Karen]

I guess I must have bumped a sensitive feather because he made a rather indignant noise and bit me again after a moment of being perfectly content with the contact. I repeated previous actions since they seemed to work before but he kept acting up

I usually just say I'm sorry if they tell me I accidentally hurt a pin feather and be very careful so I don't hurt them again. I don't consider the bird is being difficult when they communicate how sensitive those pin feathers are.

 

[webchirp]

I do points and waves and all kinds of hand gestures with mine. I use it as more of a focus thing but usually only a stare and point if I am trying to distract fighting. I always try to avoid really new pinnies that have the sheath all the way to the base. Older pinnies have sheathing gone from the base and tip. Those are usually safer to preen.

 

[JLcribber]

What you did was provide a "drama" reward. The bird bit you and you "reacted" by waving your finger and giving a verbal response. You may have thought you were scolding the bird but in reality you "rewarded" the bird for the behaviour. A reaction does not need to be good or bad. It just needs to be a reaction to be considered a reward.

I don't know about Conures but you act like this with a cockatoo and you're going to have a real problem in a very short amount of time. The best course of action is to just "withdraw" your attention for a moment or two. No reaction. No drama.

 

[Milo]

Josie will occasionally decide she's done with me when I'm scritching her, I just deposit her on the nearest acceptable surface and we go about our day. I don't make a big deal out of it because I know she loves the spectacle and if I did anything other than set her down it would reinforce that behavior for her.

Rosco is a different story. I gently cup my hand in front of his beak when he gets too rough and it seems to work for him. Not always, but most of the time.

 

[Cara]

I think it is probably not a great way to communicate. It could be seen as threatening, but (as John said), reacting is a reward. Your best best would have been to turn your back and walk away for a minute after that first nip. I think I only point fingers when I'm playing with them, so it's not viewed in a negative way by my flock, but it could be. When people point or wag their fingers at me, I sort of want to bite. Jim has a bad habit of tapping Pooka on the beak, which brings out the nippy in him. Of course, Sophie loves to be tapped on the beak - she sings "Bop, bop, bop" when you do it.

In any case, people can say things politely and that woman needs to work on her people skills.

 

[Jenphilly]

I use finger and hand from GCC to macaw! And I don't think this little guy was responding to finger or being mean, all birds even sweetest ones will react when you hit a tender pin. I personally don't count those as 'bites' unless they hold on or want to chew your finger off. It's not aggression, it's response to pain. How many of us have went to the doctors with a pain and they poke and prod and we joke we wanted to punch them I think you're doing things right and kudos for tolerating the pet store environment without beating stupid people senseless. ... you have more willpower then me!!!!

 

[pinkdagger]

I don't wag or point my fingers at my birds. My mom's side of the family does this thing where they just kind of wag their finger over the heads of animals, which LOOKS really annoying from a human perspective. Imagine from the animal's perspective, it looks like a taunt and almost an invitation to bite. I have never felt good associations with that movement, even if it's on the same level as the animal. I withdraw my hands instead. If you hit a sensitive pinfeather, withdrawing your hand is like retreating because the bird has told you that you did something unpleasant. I don't even use a verbal response when I'm bitten. If I obviously did something wrong, the bird is telling me something. If I get bitten out of the blue and ONLY if the bird doesn't let go, I just blow a soft puff of air in their face to get them to let go. No spectacle for them, reduced discomfort and pain.

Keep in mind too - birds can be temperamental. One second they're enjoying a scratch, and the next they're done and want you out of their fluff. An initial nip or lunge should be more than enough a message to get back. Their body language can be quite clear once you get to know the individual bird in question.

 

[Sadieladie1994]

If a bird bites and latches on touch their tail which is their warning system and most times they let go. Just a thought

 

[Kystyv]

Thank you all so much for your responses! I'll be sure to keep them in mind and try some of the different suggestions until I find what works best for him

 

[ZoeyFredrik]

I don't think just pointing a finger at a bird would cause them harm. It may cause you harm, if your finger was too close . The thing I pay the most attention to is my stare. Parrots, knowing by our forward facing eyes that we are predators would have a natural "fear" of an intense stare (from what I have read).

 

[Sadieladie1994]

I don't think just pointing a finger at a bird would cause them harm. It may cause you harm, if your finger was too close . The thing I pay the most attention to is my stare. Parrots, knowing by our forward facing eyes that we are predators would have a natural "fear" of an intense stare (from what I have read).

I have a few thoughts here. First, when one points a finger there is a reason and it is usually chastising of some type. Our birds are very observant and would read the entire body language. People see this behavior which also conveys a negative message. If I were in a pet store I would want to learn other training behaviors so I could help my clients to a more positive relationship with my bird.

Many learned dog behavior from others which often time had a heavy punishment component. That mind set did not work well for dogs and it is no exception with birds.

Pointing a finger was not terrible on the scale of things but I would try a different method.to work with the behavior.

 

[leslieg]

I find myself annoyed by the woman at the petshop. That's not the way to treat someone when you want them to hear what you say.

If she really cared about birds, she'd have given you the courtesy and consideration she would have (apparently?) given a bird, and given you some suggestions instead of criticizing and walking away.

 

[LaSelva]

"You should never point at a bird. They think you're threatening them. You were asking for that!" and she storms off.

I suppose she meant that when birds in the wild want to threaten each other, they point.

Regardless of the exchange that happened between yourself and the bird that day, merely pointing means nothing to the bird. It's a symbol to us because it has a learned cultural context (as in chastising) similar to waving a "fist" at someone.

This is not to say birds don't pick up on our energy and body language or combination of those things. We have to strive to understand their innate body language to know what they are communicating. But we have to also understand that they don't always see our gestures and actions in the way that we do.