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PDD and the ABRC PALMS

tootsietootoo

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Paulette Kershner
I was reading your all's postings on the Palms that left the ABRC program supposedly with PDD. Does anyone know of birds that have actually died from this disease or is it just hearsay?
I did have another one that came to me with seizures that I had to end up euthanizing after she had one very bad one and no longer had quality of life. She had come directly from ABRC. No one told me about the problems down there before I got her. :(
My Palm came from California, hatched from parents from the program.
He is 7 years old and has stopped eating. I took him to the vet yesterday and had blood work drawn and cultures. He is anemic and his calcium is low. I have put full spectrum lighting on all my birds within the last month and he will get a couple of shots tomorrow.
With losing my Umby last week, my two Greys that have been living in the same room for 7 years and now bringing a new Umby in in a few weeks I am very concerned.
I have a call in to my breeder to check on her flock.
Fingers crossed that all is well.
Any one who has any info?
Getting ready to take my Palmmy Baby for a walk in the sun. :heart:
 

Anne & Gang

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:hug8: :hug8:
 

95talongirl

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:hug8: I was informed that all palm cockatoos are abv positive, and probably due to the fact it is such a rare species in the country, and only a few people have them. (But, hey, could be wrong) However, positive for abv does not mean a bird will end up getting PDD. Many of them do not.

I wish you the best for you and your fids!
 

webchirp

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BeakFace

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I was reading your all's postings on the Palms that left the ABRC program supposedly with PDD. Does anyone know of birds that have actually died from this disease or is it just hearsay?
I did have another one that came to me with seizures that I had to end up euthanizing after she had one very bad one and no longer had quality of life. She had come directly from ABRC. No one told me about the problems down there before I got her. :(
My Palm came from California, hatched from parents from the program.
He is 7 years old and has stopped eating. I took him to the vet yesterday and had blood work drawn and cultures. He is anemic and his calcium is low. I have put full spectrum lighting on all my birds within the last month and he will get a couple of shots tomorrow.
With losing my Umby last week, my two Greys that have been living in the same room for 7 years and now bringing a new Umby in in a few weeks I am very concerned.
I have a call in to my breeder to check on her flock.
Fingers crossed that all is well.
Any one who has any info?
Getting ready to take my Palmmy Baby for a walk in the sun. :heart:
I have a Palm named Luci, yes black palm luci from you tube. She was given to me Dec 31,2013. She has always had exams her whole life. She was only 6 months old when the previous owner got her. She will be 15 this month. She came from a one bird home, in fact the only animal in the house. She has a band that says ABRC. I new she came from there. I took her in for wellness and she is fine. I had all blood test know to man done and she was clear. I wasn't worried but need a bench mark just in case. I also wanted her to meet the Avian Vet she would be going to. I have all her medical records since her being a baby. I didn't even quarantine her because I know the owner and spoke to the Avian Vet that has treated her for 14.5 years. In fact she was in for her annual one week before she came to me. I don't know what to tell you but understand your concern. Luci has never had any health issues.
I have another Palm that is only 1.5 years old, he came from a private breeder. She had her own stock for years and she has never had any issues with PDD.
The broker that sold me Poe from the private breeder use to work at ABRC along with and still does with Dr. Susan Clubb who was the avian vet at ABRC for years. In fact Luci was a bird that the same broker sold 15 years ago from ABRC! What a small world. That's a complicated story so won't even go there. Susan Clubb is very nice and if you email her she will answer any questions I am sure or just call her office. She is listed in Miami and also available on her website. She would be the person I would speak to with any concerns about ABRC. Let me know if this was of any help. She also has Palms and does the broker from ABRC and all healthy from what I know!
How long have you had him? Its a long story but Luci, originally from ABRC was given only two tablespoons a day and would only eat one tablespoon of Harrisons Pellets. She was on some very strong drug for feather plucking for years. One of the side effects was apetite! I weaned her off the drug, which it took 4 weeks to do and she really eats great now. Unbelievable she likes to eat just like the rest of my flock and all the nuts in a shell she wants and all kinds! I took her in for her exam and blood test almost 4 months after I got her which was 2 weeks ago and all was great. The owner, so sweet said she has never eaten much. Her parront was a wonderful caring person who did such a great job raising her. Anyway just wondering because sometimes when you bring in a new bird they might not eat well for days, especially Palms or just wondering the history of the bird. Hope is all right. Keep us posted.
 
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tastybeets

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@BeakFace I totally didn't realize Luci was yours! My bf and I frikkin' LOVE the video of you blow drying her.
 

BeakFace

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Like I said she was given to me Dec 31, 2013. I love her and yes she loves to shower and be blown dry. I continue her educational games as well and she loves it. I can't describe getting that call from the owner! Will you take Luci? My Poe which is 1.5 years old male Palm is fascinated with luci! Anyway I am the luckiest person in the world! You are watching the owner in those videos! She was great and part of the Palmy Mommy Group. I am still in touch often and she is welcome to visit anytime. Funny thing is I use to watch those videos which is why I had to have one. Having two is over the top! :dance4: :laughing12: :dancing: :hehe:
 

tastybeets

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Oh, man! You ARE super lucky! That's really awesome that you got to take her.
 

tootsietootoo

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95talongirl-Do you mind saying where you "heard" your information?
This is a horrible and devistating piece of information to toss around if indeed it is not confirmed and can do a GREAT DEAL of harm, both to the birds and their owners and cause unnecessary fear if not true.
That is why I asked for confirmed cases of death...facts.
I am well aware of Dr. Clubb and have a good friend who works with her.
That is why, even though I know you are trying to be helpful, careless posts like this make me very angry.
My first Palm was over 23 when I had to put her down and she came directly from the ABRC facility. The Palm I have now is 7 and I have had him since he was weaned and he has lived with my Greys and Too since he arrived. Early results show a calcium deficency and anemia so a shot tomorrow.
 

95talongirl

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95talongirl-Do you mind saying where you "heard" your information?
This is a horrible and devistating piece of information to toss around if indeed it is not confirmed and can do a GREAT DEAL of harm, both to the birds and their owners and cause unnecessary fear if not true.
That is why I asked for confirmed cases of death...facts.
I am well aware of Dr. Clubb and have a good friend who works with her.
That is why, even though I know you are trying to be helpful, careless posts like this make me very angry.
My first Palm was over 23 when I had to put her down and she came directly from the ABRC facility. The Palm I have now is 7 and I have had him since he was weaned and he has lived with my Greys and Too since he arrived. Early results show a calcium deficency and anemia so a shot tomorrow.
Was at work, so it didn't come across correctly. I apologize. The problem is a bird can be a carrier and never get sick. And not just these birds, any parrot. I am still scared to death my amazon is now infected after inadvertently bringing abv into the house. Since most of these birds came from one place, the likelihood is high. It's not meant to scare anyone, rather just to be informed so that if something is amiss, it can be addressed earlier on rather than when it's too late.

And although I try to be level headed about abv, I still deal with fear over it. But you just have to try to believe in the latest research that actual PDD cases are relativity low vs. abv infection rate. Now, how accurate the infection rate is can be still debated as the virus is hard to even track since it is not shed all the time. Hope that makes sense.
 

tootsietootoo

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Talon-Thanks for your response. Will keep all feathers and fingers crossed here that all goes well for you and yours as well as everyone else and their beloved feathered "children". :heart: :heart: :heart:
 

lexalayne

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My Palm is 19, from ABRC and fine. I had one before him, who was vetted before coming and every year he was with me. He died suddenly one night w/i 10 minutes in my arms quickly losing control of every bodily function. The same day he was hoping around, whooping and screaming hello like always, very energetic and happily flying to me. He was also from ABRC and did not have PDD.
 

tootsietootoo

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Lexalayne-How heartbreaking for you :(, I am so very, very sorry. One comforting thought, you were there for your baby and holding him, he was not alone...he knew he was loved and in his Mom's arms when he passed over.
You know he waits for you at the rainbow bridge as do any of your other pets you have loved and lost.
I am so glad you were able to find another to love. He will never take the place of your first one but I am sure your heart is big enough for 2. Your first baby would understand, approve and want you to be able to enjoy another of his kind.
May I ask, do you know what did kill your Palm?
By the way you all, I have learned that the Palm I had to put down due to seizures did NOT come from the ABRC. That was a misunderstanding on my part.

I hope I did not upset anyone by my postings. I do not think any of my birds have or had PDD, I just want to cover all bases until I find out what is wrong with my Oliver.
He STILL refuses to eat. He ate a small amount of chili (his favorite) Saturday night and that was the last he has eaten. Headed back to the vet very shortly for a shot and hopefully an increased appetite.
Think he enjoyed his walk yesterday...boy do we slow down traffic in this little river town!
I live right on the Ohio so must hold him tight against my chest as we both scan for the many hawks that live in the area.
Will update on his condition.
Sorry to start off new membership on such a sad subject. :unsure1:
 

jmfleish

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I know of someone who had at least one Palm from ABRC that died of PDD, if not two. I can ask to be sure. This is not just a rumor, this is absolutely true. Not all Palms from ABRC are going to have PDD, but the liklihood of it is probably greater than average. Shobot even wrote about it in one of the books written by Dr. Susan Clubb. They didn't come out and say it was PDD, but you could tell by the story that it most likely was PDD that they were dealing with at the time. Honestly, I don't think they knew what it was they were dealing with at the time.

Just to let you know, and not to scare you or anything but my friend who had two Palms die who had PDD (one died of PDD, the other died of a wood impaction to the crop which is common in birds with PDD and was later found to have PDD upon necropsy and histo) did everything in her power as far as tests before she bought her second pair of Palms and they came up negative at the time of puchase. I believe she even did crop swabs or maybe a barium swallow. She was being extra careful and in the end it didn't save her. The disease didn't surface for her until about ten years later.
 

95talongirl

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Talon-Thanks for your response. Will keep all feathers and fingers crossed here that all goes well for you and yours as well as everyone else and their beloved feathered "children". :heart: :heart: :heart:
Thank you. :hug8:

I wish the same for you and your fids! My hope is that for someday none of our babies will have to face the ugliness of PDD, as the research will continue into thie causes, and triggers of the disease, and hopefully a true cure, not just supportive care.

In all honesty, it does sound like something else is going on with him. Typically PDD manifests in the form of regurgitation and whole food passed in the feces, as the bird does show a normal appetite, but just cannot digest it. But there's always the neurological version, as well. Which, from your description, he doesn't have.

ABV is such a weird virus. The fact that it can essentially lie dormant for years and years; even life, adds to the mystery. What triggers the virus into kick-starting the auto-immune response that leads to PDD? Perhaps, in some birds, their immune system is adapting to the virus and not letting it progress? (After all, it was discovered that the human genome has a bornavirus embedded into it. Which, as part of adaptation, is not unheard of to take viruses "captive.")
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/12/science/12paleo.html?pagewanted=all&_r=3&

Or perhaps its just the particular strain. (6 different genotypes of ABV have been isolated. It seems strains 2 and 4 are the ones most responsible for disease.) Thus, if a bird is positive for ABV, some vets will just label the bird as "immino-compromised", rather than assuming it will develop PDD. The last article I read estimates that 30% of the captive bird population is infected with some strain of ABV; which is frightening. But if it truly was the sole cause to PDD, then why are we not seeing more cases? And because of this, the general consensus is that ABV, perhaps, is more like enabler for PDD, but only if some other trigger is present. This *should* make one feel better, but it doesn't. LOL!

I have spend entirely to much of my free time reading about this, talking to Texas A&M (Where my bird is currently awaiting final necropsy and pathology results), and others who have dealt with the horrors of PDD. Even though at times I try to "let go" of it, it's just so hard to not think about it. Its sucks so bad, for lack of better terms.

Anyways, sorry for babbling... and hope your Oliver gets well soon! :) Don't feel bad about starting off on a worrisome subject. We all are here for you and care deeply about the well being of all these birds! I am so sorry for those who have had to deal with this, and those currently dealing with it. There is nothing scarier than knowing there's not much you can do for the sick bird, and THEN worrying about the health of your other birds! The 11 days I went though with Kimi were some of the absolute worst days of my life. What's kinda funny, is I ended up coming down with a rather nasty sinus infection a week later.... further proving that stress affects all of our immune systems! So, be sure to take care of yourself, too!
 
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BeakFace

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Lexalayne-How heartbreaking for you :(, I am so very, very sorry. One comforting thought, you were there for your baby and holding him, he was not alone...he knew he was loved and in his Mom's arms when he passed over.
You know he waits for you at the rainbow bridge as do any of your other pets you have loved and lost.
I am so glad you were able to find another to love. He will never take the place of your first one but I am sure your heart is big enough for 2. Your first baby would understand, approve and want you to be able to enjoy another of his kind.
May I ask, do you know what did kill your Palm?
By the way you all, I have learned that the Palm I had to put down due to seizures did NOT come from the ABRC. That was a misunderstanding on my part.

I hope I did not upset anyone by my postings. I do not think any of my birds have or had PDD, I just want to cover all bases until I find out what is wrong with my Oliver.
He STILL refuses to eat. He ate a small amount of chili (his favorite) Saturday night and that was the last he has eaten. Headed back to the vet very shortly for a shot and hopefully an increased appetite.
Think he enjoyed his walk yesterday...boy do we slow down traffic in this little river town!
I live right on the Ohio so must hold him tight against my chest as we both scan for the many hawks that live in the area.
Will update on his condition.
Sorry to start off new membership on such a sad subject. :unsure1:
Hope you didn't mine me relaying this to Terry. Just didn't want to worry about something she might be able to shed some light.
 
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