Do any of you have a bird with PDD and other birds?

[Macawnutz]

I thought at first it was a stroke. The first vet I took her to said she injured her foot (idiot) and the second doctor went through all the possibilities he could think of that could cause neurological symptoms. Everything we thought of has already been tested, has a test pending or doesn't have a conclusive test. After ruling out everything that we could, we're left with stroke, tumor or PDD. She had a set of xrays about two weeks before and right after. Both were clean. They're being sent to the second vet along with all of her previous labs and other records. I'll have to look into the ultrasound. We talked about new testing for cholesterol, but not narrow artery disease. I'm also not sure I've ever seen her blood pressure taken. Did they have to use anesthesia for the ultrasound? An MRI could possibly show a clot or tumor, but either one of them could also be so small that they don't show up. All three possibilities I'm currently left with have a high rate of false negatives.
She hasn't done an xray under anesthesia. We talked about it and I don't remember why we decided not to do it yet. I think we decided to wait on the current tests and records to decide how to proceed. I had completely forgotten that we discussed it until you mentioned xrays.

Rosie was not under anesthesia for ultrasound nor was she for her blood pressure tests. She also had high cholesterol. Rosie definitely looked like she injured her foot at first. She had an awful limp and used her beak alot to help her get around. Climbing the sides of the cage she looked pretty normal but I knew better. She used her beak instead of her leg. She had an awful time eating food, almost as if she did not know how to. She would not drink unless I held a cup for her. Ya know the pinned eye la la face they get some times? I call it goo goo face, she was in goo goo face mood almost all the time. It was like a different bird to me. No one else noticed she was not normal other than her walking and perching. Rosie had a stroke, the ER clinic put her on sunshine factor. It was almost two months before she was 90% recovered. A month after that she had another and this time I was there. We started all over again. I put her on DMG and she has been stroke free for almost a year. At times she still has a limp, she has many handicap perches in her cage to aid in balance. She has never relearned to eat corn on the cob... she eats the whole cob if you give it to her. I really believe your baby might have had a stroke.

Look up the DMG for your bird Vetri-DMG - Antioxidant Supplement for Dogs & Cats - 1800PetMeds

Brand Name Vetri-DMG Liquid (Vetri-Science)

Active Ingredient(s): N,N-Dimethylglycine (DMG) What is this product used for: Vetri-DMG for use in dogs, cats and birds is recommended to help support proper immune response, cardiovascular and skin health, glucose metabolism and proper nerve and brain functions.

Also, do not worry about the anesthesia. You have to do what you have to do. If you have a good vet, they know what they are doing.

[Tangle Elf]

Rosie was not under anesthesia for ultrasound nor was she for her blood pressure tests. She also had high cholesterol. Rosie definitely looked like she injured her foot at first. She had an awful limp and used her beak alot to help her get around. Climbing the sides of the cage she looked pretty normal but I knew better. She used her beak instead of her leg. She had an awful time eating food, almost as if she did not know how to. She would not drink unless I held a cup for her. Ya know the pinned eye la la face they get some times? I call it goo goo face, she was in goo goo face mood almost all the time. It was like a different bird to me. No one else noticed she was not normal other than her walking and perching. Rosie had a stroke, the ER clinic put her on sunshine factor. It was almost two months before she was 90% recovered. A month after that she had another and this time I was there. We started all over again. I put her on DMG and she has been stroke free for almost a year. At times she still has a limp, she has many handicap perches in her cage to aid in balance. She has never relearned to eat corn on the cob... she eats the whole cob if you give it to her. I really believe your baby might have had a stroke.

Look up the DMG for your bird Vetri-DMG - Antioxidant Supplement for Dogs & Cats - 1800PetMeds

Brand Name Vetri-DMG Liquid (Vetri-Science)

Active Ingredient(s): N,N-Dimethylglycine (DMG) What is this product used for: Vetri-DMG for use in dogs, cats and birds is recommended to help support proper immune response, cardiovascular and skin health, glucose metabolism and proper nerve and brain functions.

Also, do not worry about the anesthesia. You have to do what you have to do. If you have a good vet, they know what they are doing.

I ordered Avi-Immune the day you mentioned DMG. I was only giving it to Judy and giving featheriffic to Judy and Korbin Dallas. I think I'll start giving the avi-immune to Korbin Dallas just in case. His cage is closest to hers. A stroke is her best option at this point, or a tumor that is operable, but I couldn't afford that right now anyway. If she has another incident, we'll do the MRI. An ultrasound might be more affordable though and could give us more information. I'll put it on my list of things to discuss. That list ends up very long by the time I get there

Judy's gotten most of her mobility back except for her foot. He isn't able to grip with it at all. She's perching ok putting weight on it. If I still get the double macaw cage I'm thinking about putting alternating shelves like in a critter cage. That way she can get up and down but if she falls, she won't fall far.

[gibsongrrrl]

did you have judy tested for zinc yet? we've seen a bunch of patients recently with zinc toxicity and it causes similar symptoms. maybe worth checking.

[Tangle Elf]

did you have judy tested for zinc yet? we've seen a bunch of patients recently with zinc toxicity and it causes similar symptoms. maybe worth checking.

We didn't test for zinc. Both vets said that the neurological effects of zinc would affect the autonomic nervous system. The second doctor was going to do the test, but said that it would show abnormalities on an xray. The xrays were both normal. The second vet hadn't looked at the xray, but will this week. We may test for it the next time she goes in. We didn't discuss it until the end of the visit and there wasn't enough blood drawn to include a zinc test.

When I say that the blood work and xrays have been clean up until this point, it's only the first vet that has reviewed them. The same vet diagnosed a sudden event that left Judy unresponsive for a few minutes and with loss of control over her foot and droppiness of her wings afterward and no pain, swelling or warmth in her foot as a foot injury. I am still hopeful that with a competent vet reviewing the labs, there is information to be learned.

[jmfleish]

Heavy metal blood tests usually include zinc and lead, so I'm surprised that if they tested for lead, that zinc wasn't automatically part of the test. Zinc poisoning does not have to show up in an x-ray. The only reason heavy metals would show up on an x-ray is if the bird had ingested an actual piece of heavy metal. If they are ingesting very small amounts like licking a zinc toy, it will be in the blood stream. I do agree that typical neurological responses to zinc poisoning are generally shaking but if the bird has enough zinc in its system, you may also see other neurological issues.

[Bokkapooh]

But one doesn't want to mistake shaking from heavy metals with natural shaking/shivering when one is controlling their body temp. When my birds are resting with their feathers poofed up, they often shiver, as an example.

[Tangle Elf]

Heavy metal blood tests usually include zinc and lead, so I'm surprised that if they tested for lead, that zinc wasn't automatically part of the test. Zinc poisoning does not have to show up in an x-ray. The only reason heavy metals would show up on an x-ray is if the bird had ingested an actual piece of heavy metal. If they are ingesting very small amounts like liking a zinc toy, it will be in the blood stream. I do agree that typical neurological responses to zinc poisoning are generally shaking but if the bird has enough zinc in its system, you may also see other neurological issues.

Thank you. We will be running the test, unless we get answers first. It was an additional $80 with the ead test. At the time it wasn't one of the more likely scenarios so we didnt do it. That vet didn't even want to test for lead, I had to really push for it. I'm trying to find the balance between finding answers, still being able to afford treatment and keeping Judy's comfort and safety in mind.

[jmfleish]

Yes, sometimes you have to be your own advocate. When I couldn't find a reason for Reggie D2's picking, I went in there with a list of things I wanted tested and my vet was hesitant to test for all of them. She did talk me out of one of the tests (it's been so long I can't remember which) but we ran the others even though she didn't feel it was necessary. It gave me peace of mind at least not that we got any answers, just a big vet bill! I can feel your pain.

[Tangle Elf]

Yes, sometimes you have to be your own advocate. When I couldn't find a reason for Reggie D2's picking, I went in there with a list of things I wanted tested and my vet was hesitant to test for all of them. She did talk me out of one of the tests (it's been so long I can't remember which) but we ran the others even though she didn't feel it was necessary. It gave me peace of mind at least not that we got any answers, just a big vet bill! I can feel your pain.

Thanks. Hopefully this was just an isolated incident that will end up with a huge vet bill and no further problems. I was reading about WNV today. I need to quit googling. WNV is in my area and does cause neurological problems. It's so rare though. I need answers just to keep me sane.

[gibsongrrrl]

Thank you. We will be running the test, unless we get answers first. It was an additional $80 with the ead test. At the time it wasn't one of the more likely scenarios so we didnt do it. That vet didn't even want to test for lead, I had to really push for it. I'm trying to find the balance between finding answers, still being able to afford treatment and keeping Judy's comfort and safety in mind.

oh good. I definitely think it would be worth it to eliminate the possibility. zinc does not have to show up on the xray. Weeble's were clean and she has lead and zinc in her. it definitaly causes other neurological symptoms other than just shaking and can cause seizures. I totally understand how expensive all this testing gets, though and it is too bad they just can't test for both in one shot. testing for both before and after treatment was painful. even with an employee discount. i've seen too many birds recently that were originally diagnosed with PDD and ended up having zinc tox to not consider it. especially if there are no undigested food in the droppings or other gastro signs. Judy sure is lucky to have found you