Bird Emergency Highway 911

[suncoast]

Could you have accidently aspirated her giving her the meds? I don't like the weezing and tail bobbing at all.

Ginger

[ceawind]

I don't think she aspirated - but it is so difficult to tell because of the very small amount given (.02ml).

[ceawind]

Update from Mr. Ceawind, husband at home with Snowy:

Snowy is still acting pretty sick, unfortunately. I've wrapped her cage in a blanket, and with the heat lamp (plus humidifier), she's around 82 degrees right now.

I'm trying not to bother her too much, I think she's still stressed out from the lavage feeding all weekend at the vet's place, and the additonal handling we have to give her morning and night for the Baytril can't be helping. She's never been handled much, and isn't liking the idea too much right now when she's sick.

I just looked in, and she's in a corner of her cage, still panting and tail still twitching. It doesn't look like so far she's eaten more than 5 or 6 seeds today.

(Our vet gave us a supplement for her water which adds minerals and iodine, and another supplement [called Boost I think] which we coat her seed with. Harrison's pellets would be a better solution, but we can't try and transition her while she's sick.)

To recap, Snowy regurgitated the first antibiotic we tried to give her for sinusitis (coupled with Vitamin A deficiency). Vet switched over to Baytril, and we had to hospitalize her over the weekend for lavage feeding when she wouldn't touch food on her own. We brought her home Monday night, and parked her cage right next to our other one (which has 2 other parakeets).

The vet did a blood test Monday afternoon (before they let us go), and said she has compromised liver function, where a normal bile level would be 35-115 (I think those numbers are accurate), Snowy is up to 200. Since parakeets are so small, they can't do a liver biopsy to see exactly what we're dealing with.

So, we have her home and have been watching her closely. Yesterday she seemed to be in better shape than today, where she's having more trouble with breathing and not eating as much. I wonder if the Baytril is loosening up some mucus, and this is what's happening as she's trying to cough/sneeze it up? That's what happens to me when I get bronchitis.

We are in contact with our vet once-twice a day, and their advice is seems to be "wait and see". We're doing everything we know how to, but any advice would be welcome.

Thanks.

[suncoast]

I don't like this at all, I think she might need to go back to your vet's ASAP. Hopefully they didn't aspirate her when they gavage fed her. May I ask what state your in?

Ginger

[ceawind]

Originally Posted by suncoast

I don't like this at all, I think she might need to go back to your vet's ASAP. Hopefully they didn't aspirate her when they gavage fed her. May I ask what state your in?

Ginger

We're in Portland, Maine, and we're using the Animal Hospital of South Gorham for bird vet needs.

The trouble is, the last time we talked to our vet, she didn't think there was much more that could be done for Snowy - that the only thing left, if her condition worsens, would be euthanasia.

We really don't want to do that (needless to say), but I don't want Snowy to suffer, either. The vet said she's had birds with bile-200 come back from the brink before, but the main med she'd use to attack this issue has a 75% chance or so of being regurgitated, and with Snowy's health so compromised, she didn't want to risk it right now. She said that if Snowy can get through the next couple of weeks on the Baytril, that would open up more treatment options.

(The vet said that if Snowy was a bigger bird, lots more options open up immediately, including a liver biopsy to see how bad things are, or if we're dealing with a tumor. But when you're little and only weigh 40 grams or so, most of the tests & treatment aren't scaled down to that size.)

Thanks,
Mr. Ceawind

[suncoast]

I understand. She is a tiny little thing. I don't even know what you would do if she has fluid in her lungs. I think your right that the proper course would be to keep her quiet, hydrated and warm and see if she can pull out of it. Keeping her in my prayers.

Ginger

[srtiels]

If the vet suspects liver problems the vet should have given you lactulose to put in the drinking water. I have found this greatly helps. Also having a full spectrum light above her.

Another thing you might ask the vet is an injection of a Multi-viamin that does contain Vitamin A in it. The body converts Beta carotene into useable Vit A in the liver. If liver function is impaired then this will compromise the bodies use of Vit A. Vit A is needed for good respiratory health. A safe supplement is Beta-carotene (pix below) found at a health food store. A little lightly sprinkled daily on any food she will eat.

Brewers Yeast is good for Stress, and can be sprinkled on any foods she will eat daily. Both are natural supplements thus the risk of overdosing is minimal.

Below is some info I've saved on my computer about lactulose, and liver support.
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Lactulose (Cephulac)

Lactulose acts as an osmosis retardant to the absorption of potential toxins from the GI tract. Used as a treatment with liver disease to decrease the load of metabolites that must be processed through the liver. What this does is reduce toxic potential of the blood ammonia due to liver dysfunction.
It also acts as an appetite stimulant.
It acidifies the intestinal contents.
It is also be effective in establishing a gastrointestinal environment that favors the growth of intestinal flora. This eliminates the need for lactobacillus supplementing. Can be used daily for weeks. If diarrhea is noted reduce the dosage.
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Under normal circumstances a bird mfg. and synthesizes vitamin C in the body. When it is sick the body’s ability to do this is hindered, thus supplementing is needed. This is *especially* so when you have suspected hepatic (liver) problems or damage. Vitamin C is a great supplement when sick and to aid the body when there are liver problems. A liver is regenerative, but it needs to be given the *tools* to help heal itself

Some of the tools are: vitamin C (while sick), lactulose, natural exposure to sunlight or full spectrum lighting close to the caging, and a changing of caging ... such as a flight cage that encourages more movement and exercise, or even flight time daily. When there are liver problems and the function of the liver is hindered this also can effect vitamin A which is formed in the liver from beta‑carotene, thus many times this supplement (beta-carotene) is needed, and also an increase of the water soluble nutrients to the body. Brewers Yeast is an excellent source for these.

Milk thistle can be given for liver problems. Dandelion can also be given to detoxify and act as a stimulant to the liver. 1 drop of each (in extract form) to each 1/2 ounce of lactulose can be mixed up and the bird given a drop 2 times a day. These 2 herbal extracts can also be added to the drinking water at a ratio of 1 drop to 3 ounces of water, and changed 2 times a day.

I've found that everything has a *cause and effect* to other body functions in our feathered friends. To help them many times we have to get to the root of the problem, such as *why* your bird does have a suspected liver problem. Also how does this effect the other organs, and go from there. Many times giving the body the needed supplements and nutritional support (tools) can do more healing than any medication.

Susanne
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[ceawind]

Originally Posted by suncoast

I understand. She is a tiny little thing. I don't even know what you would do if she has fluid in her lungs. I think your right that the proper course would be to keep her quiet, hydrated and warm and see if she can pull out of it. Keeping her in my prayers.

Ginger

Thank you for your kind words, and your prayers.

Mrs. Ceawind came home to check on Snowy, and we're happy to report she's doing a bit better. Still breathing harder than I'd like, but the tail twitchiness has subsided a bit, and she isn't puffing as much when she breathes.

We just changed her papers to monitor her output. Right now her droppings are partially-normal looking, with one exception: there is a lime-green "aura" surrounding each one on the paper, which Mrs. Ceawind tells me is a sure-sign of liver/bile trouble.

Still, she is eating a bit to be able to have anything in her droppings, so that's a good sign.

Thanks.

[srtiels]

I don't even know what you would do if she has fluid in her lungs.
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I've learned that supplemental beta carotene is essential when there are respiratory problems.

[Prince Toasty Buns]

Originally Posted by suncoast

I don't like this at all, I think she might need to go back to your vet's ASAP. Hopefully they didn't aspirate her when they gavage fed her. May I ask what state your in?

Ginger

I agree with Ginger on this. Hopefully no one aspirated her when giving food or meds.

If this vet you are using is a well experienced avian vet with a very competent vet-tech. staff (hopefully she has the biggest part of her practice devoted to birds only, no or hardly any other animals) then I also would suggest you take her back there for them to gavage feed and keep hydrated, warm and comfy - hopefully they will not fleece your pocketbook to do so.

Otherwise, if she were my bird, I would seek a second opinion from another avian vet (well experienced). I personally would not consider euthanasia unless she is suffering badly with no chance of getting better while in the most qualified & experienced hands you can find in your area. Best of luck to you & your lil one.